No, it's fighting as opposed to something that happened during play. I think the difference is obvious and so if they class wrestling or a grapple tackle as foul play then theoretically they can't be sin bin offences.

They fact they may now be ought to mean all other aspects of foul play could be a sin bin.

If they were to become so then in theory we could see head high tackles as sin bins. A good thing? Better than "on report"? No idea.

FWIW I also smell a Hethrington. It's been a toss up for some time who is worse for RL , him (her) or Nigel Wood.

Mind you if these changes are at the behest of some RL club chairmen, surely that is wrong in itself? Rules should not be changed or enforced differently on the whim of club chairmen.

The good thing about wigan is that we are always one step ahead of the game! I remember last year at the open training session before the final we had an RFL qualified ref reffing the training drills involving ruck play and defence. Brilliant idea because the players will have some of these pedantic rules drilled into their heads

I wouldn't be bothered if the games where reffed consistantly refering to these tackles but we all know it won't be! It just seems to me that the British game doesn't want to advance, the aussies have been defending aggressively for years and focusing on the ruck.

The moment coaches bring it over here ie brown and madge, certain coaches and CEO's throw their bottles out of the pram because their teams quick PTB tactics are nulified.

I have this vision in my mind of the two Hethertingtons engaged in a long, deep discussion with their close neighbours at Red Hall, with Wigan the main topic on the agenda.

I'm not saying that's what happened, but it's a potent image, isn't it?

Let's face it, neither of them would have anything to lose. Mrs Hetherington has several times been shown the the almost micoscopic extent of her abilities, and, if she's the sort of person I suspect she is, might well seek to pass the blame elsewhere (a habit that has clearly rubbed off on her pipsqueak of a coach). Mr. Hetherington may now be realising that his time in the sun - which occurred briefly during the demise of one real team, St Helens, and the rise of another, Wigan, is already over - and doesn't like it one bit.

However, I doubt very much whether Ian Lenagan or Eamon McManus, should they feel the need to have a whinge about other clubs, would get much more than a polite hearing at the RFL, and certainly not the implementation of a whole new set of rules (if indeed, that is what's happened).

There used to be a phrase in Rugby League during the days prior to Mo taking over and finally dragging the game into the 20th century - 'the Yorkshire mafia'. Do we suspect it's now up and running again?

It'll be interesting to see how much difference this directive makes to the ways referees operate over the coming weeks. As Luke Robinson (the journalist's friend) pointed out in his interview, these disgraceful Wigan tactics are difficult for referees to spot. It certainly makes their jobs a lot harder - does holding a knee joint in the tackle qualify as 'working' the joint?

I agree with others - this move stinks of Hetherington. He had very thinly-veiled pops at Wigan during last season and pre-season.

Wonder what the Hetheringtons will ask for next? For him: head-high shots and ball stealing no longer count as penalties. For her: a 20 'start' on the opposition so they can actually win a game.

I think you're probably right about the Yorkshire mafia, Cruncher.

As far as McManus goes, well the days of the early-mid noughties when Saints could have 20 internationals in their squad as a result of aggressive management of the SC (with them being punished every year for merely "technical" breaches) seem very distant now. Saints seemed to be an exception to the Yorkshire bias in RL, but those days have gone.

The apparent Yorkshire bias is also shown in the franchising system - how Wakefield in particular are still in the SL is beyond me. Widnes' treatment is disgraceful IMO. You can't exclude Widnes on the basis of poor financial management by the former owners and board (ignoring the new owners' financial backing and business credentials - the owner is not only a millionaire but a main board director of a listed plc!) and yet allow Wakefield in with a very weak business case and stadium plans that were pie in the sky.

The only note of caution I would inject into a debate about RFL bias is that I think much of what goes on is cock-up rather than conspiracy. I don't think the RFL are capable of any kind of organised conspiracy, because that would require a degree of competence.

This came directly from a senior person at the rfl who now no longer works there that 'they were extremely p*ssed off that they had been made to look stupid by wigan 'getting round the cap' but not actually breaking any rules, so for the sake of their credibility with the other clulbs they had to do something'...............

It all came down to them saving face.

I don't think there's many that would disagree with that!

They do seem to make idiocy into an art form.

That'll be a tackle BY a Wigan player and not a tackle ON a Wigan player.

how would the penalising work for example if the tackle is missed....but then wilkin tells the referee that it was one of the above infringements?

is it ignored or do we then start going to the video ref for referal and if the player was guilty then they get the bin??

First of all apologies for that post the other day regarding your father. I was out of order.

Your spot on, how is it going to be policed? If the referees are not seeing it now, will they suddenly develop x ray vision?

The one really intrigues me is the tackling of the standing player. It's surely up to the referee to shout held. What are the defenders supposed to do wait and let a player like for example Solomona stand and offload.

It'll be mayhem for a week and then revert to normal. Remember the two feet behind the line, quiick ptb etc. They all were unworkable.

This is exactly what happened to the Melbourne Storm. They was the first team in the NRL to introduce effective wrestling technique and it got all the other clubs backs ups and led to exactly these situations clubs and even David Gallop said it would be outlawed and refs were to stamp down on it. Thing is they soon realised what Melbourne was doing was 1 legal and 2 effective and now the majority of NRL clubs use the same tatics.

Melbourne led the way in the NRL for a good few years and were forward thinking we have been brought that same culture by Madge and he has transformed us from nealry men into champions. IMO the rest of the Super League coaches need to realise defence wins games and lining up shouting innnnnnnnn isnt good enough anymore.

Ahhh, another "every meeting ever held by anyone is specifically convened to plot against Wigan" thread.

God bless you pie-eaters.

Interesting that I never mentioned anyone but it looks like you've self selected there, and like I said touched nerve duly noted. It is amusing how some can't stop themselves telling other "how in the know" they are.

Appreciate the apology rogues, but i hold no grudges, and all is fine, banter taken a bit too far but its all good now. I apologise as well for my part.

It just baffles me the thought that a referee who doesnt see these things is going to start seeing them.

As you mentioned though, give it two weeks and we'll be back to the way it was before, interesting though that this meeting was held the week of the clash of two of the best teams in the league, will the rules be enforced on friday, i haven't noticed it say when it will start.

maybe if they are going to introduce all these new rules then we need to follow the NRL and have 2 referees, in order to spot every one of the infringements.

Whether it's specifically designed to penalise us or not, it will certainly benefit you lot. As someone else has implied, Whinger Wilkin will now have a whole range of complaints that he can take to the referee.

Yes, I've sent him the ointment.

I wonder if Wigan fans are ever going to stop calling everyone whingers and admit that the rest may have a point? First whinger Wilkin, then Agar, now Robinson. Maybe they're not all moaners, maybe there is actually something in what they say.

I wonder what Wilkin made of Scott Moore's dangerous tackle on Kevin Sinfield?

In shock news today, it was revealed that John Wilkin and Luke Robinson are men of integrity after all - despite much past evidence to the contrary.

In other shock news, it was claimed that Richard Agar actually knows what he's talking about - again, despite much past evidence to the contrary.

Sorry bud. You need to find some better witnesses.

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realise that because some people don't think you're a man of 'integrity' then you're automatically a liar.

I'll give you the Agar one though

I forgot Potter too.

Say no more.

Agree totally with Cruncher. How many times could Wigan players or Madge have complained/moaned about some of the assaults/ injustices perpetrated on them by opposition players last year, particularly Leeds in the CC ( Peacock on Sam, Senior on Joel) and Huddersfield ( Mason and Griffin on Fielden - for which Fielden got banned for defending himself!).

The Wigan players and coach maintain their dignity and don't go whinging/moaning to refs or the press - we fans may do so on this forum, but there is a major difference between fans complaining and players/coaches spouting off at seemingly every opportunity.

The old adage of do your talking on the field - as Wigan did against Huddersfield last week and Hull the previous week.....!

That's not really what my point was though. I'm not saying that Wigan are dirty and everyone else is clean, or even that they did the right thing by complaining. I'm just saying that they probably have a point. Just because they decided to talk out/complain, doesn't make what they're saying wrong...

It doesn't make what they're saying right either.

I wouldn't trust either Wilkin or Robinson as far as I could throw them. There's at least as much reason to disbelieve them as there is to believe them, in fact more so, given events in the past.

But what Fames says is indisputably true -an awful lot of clubs, in the form of their chairmen, captains, coaches, players etc are doing an awful lot of undignified bleating to the press at present (or to the RFL, depending on who they feel will take them most seriously). The soppiest to date have been Leeds and Hull (hmmm - wonder what the connection there can be, aside from them both being crap!), followed closely by St Helens under Potter last year, Bradford under Potter this year, and Wakefield under John Kear (though no-one cares about them any more as they're dead and gone).

Noticably absent from this list are Warrington under Tony Smith (who is clearly more concerned with winning than whingeing, and Hull KR under Justin Morgan, who is clearly an all-round good egg).

To date, Royce Simmons has shown no real inclination to pass the buck for his own failings, and nor has McManus. In that respect, if I were you I'd be a bit wary of joining forces with the whingers. Your club clearly has a bit more self-respect.

Why not? What makes you think they are right?

Don't you think that Luke Robinson is simply motivated by being let go by Wigan given Huddersfield play the same type of game as us using the same tactics? Or is he just too thick to realise when slagging Wigan off for how they play he is having a go at his own team by implication?