What do you know?

would it be



6. Tomkins
7. Luluai

with deacon coming on as sub or...

6. Tomkins
7. Deacon

with Lulaui coming on as sub

And Ian Lucas whilst remaining mild mannered did manage to improve under Monie for example.

I'm just saying, looking back on the two most important games we lost last season - the CC semi Against Warrington, and the Grand Final eliminator against Saints, we didn't lose either of them due to not having a prop that people wouldn't like to mess with.

Of course i'd like to see us improve in this department, I just don't feel that this season with Fielden, Feka and Coley still on contract is the season to do it - especially when we've yet to see what a different coach can get out of them, or the props that might have been available this year compared to who's out of contract for 2011

I know it was by having two props come off the bench and play crap.

6. Tomkins
7. Deacon

with McIlorum coming on as sub.

So is Tommy leaving?

No he's starting at 9.

In the CC semi we brought on Fielden and Feka at a point in the game where the momentum had shifted to Warrington and they'd started to put us under all kinds of repeat pressure - so we bring on a guy that's a walking target for them to run at.

The same combo came on against KR in the play-offs when we were not on the back foot and drove us even further in charge of the game.

Lucas improved but it was still something that held him back, in a team of star players, we have a team lacking personality somewhat which is why I think an enforcer type prop is crucial for long term success and it is not something that can be coached into a player to the required standards we lack.

Not a chance.

Look at the way Melbourne play. They don't use the scooter hooker.
Riddell will start.

I feel a new thread coming on.

Tommy Leuluai a 7 or a 9 where do people see him and think he's most effective.

It's 9 for me and Wayne Bennett agree's with me.

It depends what point you are trying to make. If it's he was integral to, and played alongside, those world class players and his pedigree is among the best in the British game, then I would agree. If you're making the point that he made his reputation without another quality half-back to help out, again I'd agree. If your saying he was carried by them and only made his reputation because of the world class players surrounding him I'd say you haven't the first clue as to the importance of the halves in Rugby League.

Fair enough, I'd like to see it to. I just don't feel it hampered us as much last season as for example the woeful lack of kicking game. I'd be looking to change the prop situation after this season when players could be released at no cost, when we've had a thorough chance for the new team to assess and train them, and when there's a wider choice than Mick Fozzard, Mark O'Mealey and Shane Tronc available (at least 2 of which we might not have been able to fit in this years cap anyway).

They don't have to use a scooter hooker as they have Cam Smith, an 80 minuter.

We and everyone else don't have that luxury.

What's a scooter hooker got to do with anything?

I don't think TL is a scooter hooker in that sense of the phrase though Rogues. Look at the way he plays for NZ as starting hooker for them. Dummy half running is mainly left to Luke. Tommy's scoots tend to be more oportunistic than as a first option.

We had three halfbacks. When one of them suffered a season-ending injury, the third - Sam Tomkins - was able to step up and fill the gap. Which perfectly illustrates the point I was making.

In that case with Lee Mossop, Sam Tomkins and Sean Ainscough included in that 24, Deacon makes the 25th member of our 1st tier squad given its been stated the younger players had their contracts upgraded.

So unless you are expecting players in the 25 to go out on loan signing Deacon has completed our 1st tier squad for 2010.



Well form what you say it looks like it will prevent us signing another senior player who would be a 1st tier player.

Dave

Scooter impact hooker isn't the way in the NRL on the whole

Here's a Breakdown
[list
Name App Minutes Avg
Nathan Friend (Titans) 26 2061 79
Michael Ennis (Bulldogs) 25 1996 79
Matthew Keating (Para) 28 1655 59
Cam Smith (Storm) 21 1647 78
Dean Young (Dragons) 23 1633 71
Isaac De Gois (Knights) 24 1560 65
Robbie Farah (Tigers) 20 1553 77
Matt Bailin (Manly) 25 1533 61
Pail Aiton (Panthers) 20 1347 67
Andrew McCullough (Broncos) 19 1312 69
Corey Hughes (Sharks) 21 1018 48
Isaac Luke (Rabbitohs) 18 1016 56
Aaron Payne (Cowboys) 16 1008 63
Alan Tongue (Raiders) 14 989 70
Ian Henderson (Warriors) 18 908 50
Jake Friend (Roosters) 11 686 62
[/list:u
Also the top hookers: Cam Smith, Michael Ennis, Robbie Farah all have good kicking games.

Hell look at Origin or most of the teams they don't even bother having a 2nd hooker in the 17

Unless we sign somebody on more money before the season starts, in which case we can list him as 2nd tier assuming he fitted and played a game

Like I said, i'm pretty confident that IL and co have done the maths.

Remember the 2nd Tier 50k only counts if a player plays a qualifying game for us.

I would certainly expect players from that 25 to go out on loan as happened with Mossop and Goulding for example last season.

That's true but he has been given a playing contract so I expect him to play and thus count on the cap.

If we sign another player on more than Deacon and as a result Deacon drops down to the 2nd tier then he really would have to be on a pittance or the likes of Farrell and the other junior players you mentioned won't be able to play for the first team much if at all.

Given MM has said he sees the squad is complete I reckon he is on a reasonable wage and is a 1st tier player.

So in my opinion IL will have done the maths and the maths will say no more players.

Dave

And that's fine

I think the squad is pretty much there anyway for 2010. We can look at it again for 2011 with more cap space potentially to play with.

Could Deacon be getting paid a pittance for this season while he still counts on the cap? Then when he becomes an assistant full time (next season?) he gets paid a lot more while it's not counted on the cap?

Well that's where I started! I was asking given this signing probably meant we could not sign any more senior players because of the limit of 25 first tier players were people happy with Deacon's signing on that basis?

We got there in the end and I am glad someone knew what I was on about!

Dave