Bye bye weasel face

Last year a lot thought that we would be having a fallow year.
Having a system where we have to build for the future and produce our own talent will mean that we fans have to expect good and bad years. I would prefer it that way than simply always buying up ready made replacements. It adds to the anticipation and is ultimately good for the game. When we can buy quality I like to think that we will be nurturing their ability.
A well organised club will take change in their stride and be looking to the future. At the moment Wigan seem to have an interesting mix of home grown, superstars and projects. Both Clubb, Sarginson, Bateman el al could really surprise us with the right coaching and some of the young lads will be superstars. My real worry is getting a league structure that allows us to keep/fully develop our talent rather than just fighting for the crumbs with the rest.

I dont know why but this post made me smile!

They will both be missed, no question about that but for my money Lee Briers will be missed by Warrington more than we will miss Sam. I accept what Wire fans say about Briers not playing a fair bit last year but think he was always there for the more important games, Myler just doesn't have the guile of Briers from what I have seen of him and with regard to Sam I felt last year that the better teams had sussed out how to stop him from being as effective as he had been in the past and being as he wanted to go then maybe it was the right time. I am firmly of the same opinion as Bilko on this one and believe that Pat is the player we will miss the most. There was a thread about Pat a short time back where some fans thought he wouldn't be missed because he maybe isn't as fast as he once was but it's not all about his speed as he is still no slow coach but we will miss his kicking, his positional sense and his all round reliability. He has always been the quiet man in the background and often deserved man of the match more than the eventual recipient. Always surprised me that some youngster isn't spending the majority of his training time perfecting his kicking skills cos he would probably then be a shoe in for the first team

Woh, hold on. This experienced NRL fullback could be a complete flop over here (if he was as good as you hope he is, he wouldn't be coming over to play in an inferior comp.). This question is a no-brainer. Briers has been past his sell-by date for a while, whereas Tomkins is in his prime.

His move to the NRL will show the world just how good he is and I wish him all the best. The town of Wigan will weep rivers of tears over this move (be honest and stop trying to put a ridiculous positive spin on the transfer).

I appreciate your sentiments, but this team has already moved on. Sam this year has only played half a season, and whilst always a threat has never quite hit the high notes in the big games. Wane has been working on building a team which is not reliant upon the Sam, which is what we were 18 months ago. I am convinced that he was let go because a reasonable succession plan had been put in place. If you look at our squad now, you will see that we have gone from spending big money on marquee signings, to buildings a quality squad with 2 players in every position. This allows us to take advantage of the current system, and rest players to ensure we hit the play-offs full tilt.
On that basis, we have mitigated the risk of letting him go and utilised the money we have received as described above. We also have a lot of quality coming in through the current U19s, some of whom next season will be seen to be 'new Sam's'.
The best way to replace Sam is not to replace him, but to re-evaluate and work out where your new strengths are. I am confident that we have done this. Just like we did in the recent past when we lost Offiah, Hanley etc
As I am not a Wire fan, I cannot say whether they have done the same, but I dont think they will be too far off in the regular season matches with the replacements that they have lined up.
The main concern for both teams is how to win the close matches where Sam and Lee were often the difference.
The GF and CC wins for us are pointers that we can cope. How Wire will fare, only time will tell.

You are nasty, karma

One player is young in his career has left for more money but as his brother left to RU for same thing you can't blame them as they won every trophy RL had to offer and you can't take that away. Lee Briers is a different kettle of fish completely he has stuck with Warrington for 16years. Been annoying to opposition fans but loved by the wire. Forced to leave and retire from game due to injury not leave for money you can't compare the two. Lee Briers will be missed more and not just for his playing but his personality on the field.

I won't miss his personality, hunchback or pendulous chest, personally.

Another wonderful post from one of the 'single figure IQ' poster brigade. Life in your house must be hilarious to watch - a series of grunts and head scratches as you try to work out how to open the front door, can of beans etc. Perhaps you could do a reality TV series



Back to topic - I think both will be big losses although Wigan have shown they can replace 'stars' with players who, on paper, are not their equivalent. that bodes well for Wigan replacing Sam. In terms of replacing Briers, this is a more difficult one in terms of finding someone with the ability to do something 'out of the box' to make the difference in really close games against top teams. Time will tell whether that is available in-house in the way Wigan have replaced people recently or whether an external replacement is needed. I hope its the former.

also left for the challenge as they were given the opportunity too.

Both will be a massive loss to the product that is Super League. Both clubs have lost a creator, magician and a leader. Who will Sky turn to now for a focal point of SL?

Whilst Sam and Lee were/are outstanding players they would be the first to admit that they could do nothing without the work of team mates.

Sky would do well to market the sport as a TEAM game not concentrate on individuals (i.e Wigan Warriors is one of the great clubs in world sport not just in rugby league and Saints/Leeds are not far behind). There doesn't need to be a focal point. The breath of fresh air that is Premier Sports recognises this and has managed to show each game in a positive light regardless of whether there are superstars playing or not.

Some of the best and most entertaining rugby in this world cup has been played by teams from which we would have been hard pressed to name any individual (before the tournament). The record crowds, many of whom have never heard of Sam Tomkins -sounds unbelievable, but I think true- suggest that there is a market for RL in this country.

I think you are right about the world cup suggesting there is a market for RL in this country. A big reason for that is the great games we have seen which has probably surprised quite a few people.

I remember when RU started to include teams from all over the place in their world cup and they got blow-out scores not competitive games. Now granted we may get one on Saturday when Aus take on the USA (I am going to that one by the way) but I think the games so far have been great and a real eye-opener for many to what a great sport this is.

I hope BT are watching and lining up a huge bid for the right to broadcast the sport!

This market we see for the game is also why IL needs to succeed in his power struggle with Hethrington and Wood ( I was going to say with the RFL but they run it...). We can't let this opportunity be tossed away by a those running the game currently.

They have done a good job with the WC but commercially they have been inept for too long for this to get them off the hook.

Where I would disagree with you though is over the importance of individuals. They are key to getting people interested in new sports IMO and are key to marketing. People know who Bradley Wiggins is but will have no clue who "Team Sky" are and may not even know he does actually race for a team.

Sam could have been a household name here[i if[/i any momentum following on from a successful world cup were to be maintained by those running the game.

Sports need their superstars to attract people to them. J Wilkinson in RU, Wiggins, Tomkins - kids want to emulate these people.

So in that respect Tomkins going to the NRL is a loss to our game here.

One way it would not be so bad is if we had more internationals to keep his name in the frame. This WC has shown me that while many see the club game as the pinnacle it really isn't. I never viewed it as such when I was watching Elllery and Co try and beat the Aussies at the height of Wigan's success in the 80's and 90's and the way this tournament is going makes me think the same now.

Fair point about individuals.

I suppose that it gets my goat the way Sky continually pick out individuals from a team game. They also over emphasize the role of the coach.

Cycling is slightly different - a bit like cricket in that it is basically an individual performance within a team framework. Rugby is a genuine team game as we know. Sean O'Loughlin will NEVER get the credit he deserves, because he is a genuine team player, but not perhaps superstar material.

Sam wouldn't be a super star if he was playing at London Broncos. He only flourishes within a team that plays to his strengths. Look how he's struggling with England at the moment, which I think is more down to the fact that Chase, Watkins and Cudjoe really don't know how to pass QUICKLY. But that's probably for another thread!

The NRL are in discussion to shut down the league for 3 weeks for a dedicated SOO tournament. This is ideal for creating an international 3 week 6 nations on both sides of the world.
England, Ireland, Scotland, Wales, France and Italy.
New Zealand, PNG, Fiji, Samoa, Tonga and Cook Islands.

5 venues triple headed with all SL and NRL based players available for selection for their countries.

It's a dream, a very doable easy dream, but something I'd really look forward to ergo won't ever happen.

Forgive my ignorance, but how can you do a 6 nations in 3 weeks?

Ok just say Saturday was the first of the month, you could realistically play to Sunday the 23rd of same month.

5 games all triple headed means only needing to find 5 days in those 23 days.

Saturday 1st game 1
4day
Wednesday 5th game 2
4day
Sunday 9th game 3
6days
Saturday 15th game 4
7 days
Saturday 22nd game 5

Triple head keeps costs down, crowds up and makes it a day out, the only problem is the Wednesday fixture, 3 games on a school night is difficult. So that could be split to indivdual fixtures, or a double head and a single fixture in France (France v Italy).

It's very doable

Game 1 DW
Game 2 Wrexham (England v Scotland, Wales v Ireland) Perpignan (France v Italy)
Game 3 Hull
Game 4 Cardiff FC
Game 5 Hudds

Italy, Scotland and Ireland get games when the sport has grown in their respective countries. Just an idea on venues but gives an outlook.

Debbie did Dallas in 90 mins. 6 nations in 3 weeks should be a breeze...

Link?

The bigger loss is Briers. A young and fresh player at the prime of his career who was wanted by union and the top clubs in the NRL and was regarded as the best rugby league player in the northern hemisphere. Tomkins is a once good player who was now past his prime. I think I've got that the right way round anyway.

So we've established from this thread so far that Wire fans think Briers and Wigan fans think Sam.

Wigan fans are sick for being glad to see the back of a rivals best player, whilst Wire fans being glad to see the back of Sam are justified because he went for money.

So to sum up, nothings changed in the Wigan v Wire d!ck measuring contest.

Apart from we have both got smaller ones than we did with those players still here.