I don’t have the stats to hand but what minutes did Thompson and McMeeken do? I would say both did very little on first view of the game and another bench spot could’ve been given to an Ackers or Sneyd as we had no variety at 9 either, plus Watkins has played in the pack all year. That’s more than enough variety but we were ultimately let down by a good number in any case.

Should never have played 6. Always looking for a pass rather than taking the line on. Mind you, apart from Lomax, who is now in his thirties, I don’t know where we are going to find a stand off who posses the quality to play at this level. Hopefully, one will appear before the next World Cup.

Well, there's Harry Smith. Do you see many other contenders in the halves? Although the result today wasn't really a comment on who had the best half-backs (although they did), it was about, which side played as a team.

He’s not at this level but hopefully he can elevate himself to international standard. A lot of the players who played today will not feature at the next World Cup and therefore Waney will have to look to the next generation.

Lewis Dodds.

Harry Smith is nowhere near international level yet.

Lewis Dodd.

Well Welsby is a Wiganer so he can be blamed aswel as all the other connected England players.

We got beat by a better team,Wane didnt make the mistakes on the pitch,we got back in the game a few times to win but didnt .I think that sums it up.

Watching from quite low behind the sticks it's sometimes difficult to get an overall perspective but I thought:

- we looked disorganised and lacked composure in attack. Under pressure we really missed an experienced organising half. Lomax would have made a huge difference. In a pressure game it showed Welsby isn't an international 6. Not bagging him as he's a great player, but lack of experience and craft showed.

We criminally underutilised Young on the wing. I can't remember any shape on the right to get that side attacking Samoa. Again, lack of direction from the halves.

We resorted too much to one out forward hit ups and made very few offloads. Made it easy for Samoas big middles to read and defend. This may have been a tactic to tire them but wasn't effective. I think speed and accuracy of passing off the floor was poor today. Again, put Roby in and we are a different team.

All in all very frustrating as we played well below potential and made Samoa look better than they were when it really mattered.

Really disappointing but I strongly feel the blame should not be put onto Shaun Wane. Maybe Ackers should have been on the bench as an option. But ultimately we lost because of some really poor decision making/lack of concentration from players you wouldn't expect.

Wane can't control Kallum Watkins having his worst game of the tournament after playing so well early on (the dropped ball on the tryline, two poor defensive reads which led to trys). He can't control the Tomkins forward pass, the Welsby fumble, the Radley intercept pass, the simple dropped ball from Dom Young, the Whitehead brain explosion at the end of the 80.

The players cracked under the pressure and blew it.

Wardle playes Left centre.

The next World Cup is in 2025 and that signals a changing of the guard, out with the old (literally) and in with the new. There's only one problem where do we find the new talent to play at international level? I look around Super League and I am struggling to raise a team, hopefully we will see some players come to the fore. There will be yet another review as to why we have failed and, like all the others, it will just gather dust. We need to embrace meritocracy rather than dumbing down our game. Fundamental change within the game is essential let's hope IMG can deliver it.

Looking forward it is 9 that worries me. I think we are in good shape in other positions but I just see at the moment a lack of quality at 9.

Lots of expectation around Bailey Hodgson and hopefully he can break through in the next 2 years at Newcastle.

We have no depth and much less quality than the Australians.

From the outset Waney selected Watkins at right centre. Rowley knows he's can't hack it there so plays him second row where he's had a very good season. Trouble for Shaun was that there wasn't an Intl English right centre either in the NRL or SL so he played Watkins there. Didn't take long for him to get found out in the semi.

As for the future it isn't that bad. Welsby can play full back. Young and Makinson will be available. At centre there's Newman, Wardle, King and Percival. Williams will be available as will Dodds and Smith. That's of course if they are all fit!

As for forwards, there do seem to be plenty young big forwards around but we will;l need two ball players probably at 9 and 13.

That backline will not worry the Aussies. Makinson will be 34 and I am not sure that his body can take what he puts it through for another three years.

This is the most articulate and mature summary I've read. Its easy to let club loyalities influence comments and start bagging other players. Indeed Welsby has had a lot of stick on social media. I do get it, he is a big talent, much was expected of him and he didn't perform. I'm big enough to say that he had a poor game and hopefully he will learn from that, lick his wounds and come back well. With a Saints hat on I'm hoping he goes back to FB and has a great season.

Too many players underperformed but it was the right edge for me that cost us. Young looked young (pardon the pun) and looked a bit lost at times. The communication between him, Watkins and Welsby was poor and defensively we struggled. Tomkins looked his age, however I thought Williams played well in patches.

As for the future, a lot of those who played on Saturday won't be in the next WC. Makinson, Burgess, Hill, Cooper, Tomkins, Whitehead etc and then even the likes of Walmsley, Lomax and Farrell will be too old. Hopefully there is some talent coming through. The problem is that the game is too reliant on the likes of Saints/Wigan/Leeds bringing through all the talent. They can't keep doing that in silo and need other clubs to step up. To be fair to Warrington, they do now seem to have got their academy sorted and are producing some excellent players. However when you look at the size of Hull as a city and the catchment area of it, its a disgrace that they aren't producing international class players.

Agree that no point in blaming any players because they dont play for your team,on Saturday I was a England fan not a Wigan fan as I have stated on many occasions.
We need other teams to step up and supply more international players.
Keep Wane as head coach,get some more internationals played each year,get rid of the salary Cap or raise it enough so we can improve the product.

We need to fundamentally change the organisation of the sport over here, something that we have, allegedly, been doing for over four decades. Tinkering at the edges will not make us competitive with the Aussies. We are a second rate sport compared with the NRL and we need somebody with vision to take the game by the scruff of the neck, unfortunately Chairman Mo is no longer with us. Sadly we have gone backwards since the days of Hanley and co.

People have put the likes of Welsby on a pedestal but, although I think the lad is a very good player, he would not get a gig in the NRL. Hopefully, as Stu says, he gets a run at fullback and then we can seriously assess his qualities. We are woefully short of real talent, a fact supported by average antipodeans playing in SL, and that needs to change if people born after 1972 are to witness another successful England side.

Not much has been mentioned about quota spots.

I remember when you had 3 and a bit of a loophole meant you could scam 5. Now we have 7 with loopholes meaning we can go up to 8.

This is a huge fundamental issue with the game.

In many cases clubs can field a match day 13 with over half the players not qualifying to play for England or the other home nations.

We need to reduce this as a matter of priority initially to 5, then ultimately to 3.

I think that is a sensible suggestion.

I agree in principal, but you also have to look to maintain the club level game and make it attractive to spectators, unfortunately imports do that for clubs, reducing the quota too low may mean a lack of interest at club level and a drop off in spectators.

I would like to see more of an emphasis on bringing players into the international set up with a chance for them to play more international games, hopefully this will raise the standards of players coming through and we can try and identify the younger talent coming through

I agree in principal, but you also have to look to maintain the club level game and make it attractive to spectators, unfortunately imports do that for clubs, reducing the quota too low may mean a lack of interest at club level and a drop off in spectators.

I would like to see more of an emphasis on bringing players into the international set up with a chance for them to play more international games, hopefully this will raise the standards of players coming through and we can try and identify the younger talent coming through

Still gutted