Last season Wane was very quick to drop Charnley due to poor performances (quite rightly too). However some players do seem to be immune this, Smith being one. For his own development he should have some young kid chomping at the bit waiting to take his place yet week after week he is one of the first names on the teamsheet regardless of his performances.

Whilst I wouldnt necessarily think SW would chuck Hampshire in against Saints on Good Friday I would like to think he would assess his performance with a view to replacing him on the Easter Monday game.

Smith was naff, not average last night, he was naff but with nothing to keep him on his toes he can continue to be so.

You're only 65 posts old. Hang around long enough & you'll see there are enough swivel-eyed loons on here to open their own club.
Last night wasn't good all round. Missed tackles, last play brain-farts, it had everything. But (and I'm repeating myself, yet again) why is it that we can't kick? Since Richards left, our kicking game is non-existent. Whether it's from the tee, or in play (invariably straight down the throat of whoever we're against).

Smith had a bad game (not his first nor, I expect, his last), but he's not intrinsically a poor player (poor kicker, yes). He took charge last year more often than not when SOL was off, and I rate him as a good all-round squad member. Not a high-flyer, but I'd rather an efficient 13 on the park than a disparate bunch of big-I-ams. Problem is at the moment, we don't seem to have either.

They've now had more than enough time to get out of third gear, if we're not in 6th & cruising on Friday, I fear we might be struggling to catch up come July & end up towards the bottom of the (top) 8.

I think whether Smith is good enough or not is a bit of a side issue to our overriding problems in attack atm. Yes we're missing our first choice 1, 6 and 9 which then means our first choice 13 has to play out of position, which doesn't help, but to me it's our attacking structures and tactical play that is lacking rather than any personnel issues. We were always accused of being "robotic" under Madge and in SW's first couple of years but what we did was highly effective and it was all down to well rehed plays, plenty of option runners and, most importantly, fast, accurate passing. That is what isn't happening at the minute. In every game this year we've had the territory and possession to kill teams off early but we haven't done it, needing late scores to win 3 out of our first 5 matches and then last night it bit us on the backside.

I remover in the dark days under Noble how Barrett performed. At times the tactics and structures that restricted him went out of the window, he took the game by the scruff of the neck and changed games.

Now I'm not for 1 second claiming Smith is in Trent's class but as an international half he should be able to step up and change our tactics when they clearly are not working.

He has to be the senior half and most of the time last year Williams clearly took that role on.

He isn't good enough it is a simple as that.

I don't think Sargy did that bad, when you look at the one he dropped you will see that as he took the ball his right leg slipped back causing him to pitch forward which made him lose the ball.
I thought his general play was ok, all that was lacking was an halfback or forward with the touch to put him through any small gap that may appear, he put himself in position a couple of times but the ball wasn't forthcoming.
This week there as been a lot of talk about Charnley not being the same player the last couple of seasons compared with previous seasons. That could be put down to a lack of confidence if not effort, one of the things that could have caused this is knowing he would be publicly slagged of by the coach if he had a bad match. (also knowing others can get away with it week after week).
Also what is getting to me is the constant chatter "we will be OK when Sam is back", he has been away nearly 3 years.
Sam first injured his Posterior Cruciate ligament on the 23rd of March Last Year, (12 months ago) against Parramatta in the 3rd round of the NRL. He only played in about 14 matches in total last year and this was in fits and starts.
He scored only 1 try all season, so to think everything will be back to normal may be clutching at straws.
I think it may be time for Sam to move to standoff if we find out his speed has diminished a bit.
Remember, Darren Lockyer had his best years when he moved to standoff after an outstanding few years at fullback.

What I would love to see (if Sam proves he his up for it) is the following lineup in the backs ,taken from existing staff.

No 1 Sarginson. 2 Manfredi, 3 Gildart, 4 Gelling,5 Charnley, 6 Sam Tomkins and 7 Williams.
With that line up there would be far more balance and threat from the backs.

Your being too sensible. Gelling is useless but at 3 is even worse.
Wane is in his own world of his own where tough is best and I know best. Anyone who plays Gelling at 3 hasn't got a clue. Smith is just symbolic of the ineptitude.

Wane is a complete and utter buffoon and one who is so stubborn that it could be too late into our season before he realises the errors of his ways

We are a pale imitation of the Wigan side that he inherited and are also devoid of attacking options since Deac's left

It is probably no surprise if there is no longer a distinguished former back (as was the case with Harris and Deacon) in charge of the backs or general attacking play. There are Wane, Matty Peet and John Winder as far as I know involved with the training of the first team squad - none of whom were top class backs!
Contrast the excellence of Widnes last night where the influence of Brett Hodgson is there for everyone to see. Dennis Betts also played under Graham Lowe and John Monie and no doubt learned a lot from them. True, SW was also coached by Lowe - before he got shipped off to Leeds.
Some on here have commented about SW being pig-headed and stubborn. As with so many things in life, a top coach has to be able to be receptive to the ideas of others. One isn't right all the time......

Anyone who thinks the tean will be transformed when sam comes back is dillusional

The same as mr cunningham appears to be given his interview just now.....

The thing is though, we'll be right up there at the end of the year. For all of our faults, we will still waltz into the top 4 comfortably.

Honestly over the course of a season who is going to be better than us?

Stop that now, people are enjoying the misery....

Just been watching Wests Tigers, and their young halves Brooks and Moses out on a wonderful performance in the first half, setting up some great tries with inspired running and kicking. What a pleasure to watch exciting halves at work, they looked like thy could score with every attack!

Hard to argue with that. We have gone backwards in terms of playing and coaching staff. Only probably Bateman and Flower would get in the side of 5 years ago. The salary cap hasn't changed, we now have the marquee player rule and more homegrown players that don't count as much on the cap. How has our quality decreased so rapidly?

Itchy you could be right in, I got my 3 mixed up with my 4, should have been Gildart at 4 Gelling at 3, I did say though the backs I named came from the players available at present.
Not quite as sensible as you think.
But your statement on "Wanes World" makes me think.
Has Wane got 100% control on all thing Football matters and Rads who has far more honours and knowledge of the tactics of free flowing Rugby just employed for Corperate events.

I'm just an owed farwt who wants a centre who can pass, a prop who can break more than wind, a full back who can catch&tackle, a coach who trusts his players, a back that can actually kick, a halfback who knows what HE wants to do and a coach who understands that some positions actually require a modicum of skill.
Oh and any middle whatever that is who can do more than 20 minutes a go.
I won't hold my breath.

Itchy, you should try drinking mild like me, it has a very calming effect

.

It will because this is superleague! Put Tomkins in at full back and Williams at stand off and the side will be a hundred times more dangerous. Is that down to them? Well not totally, it's because the quality of the league is poor and they will get us rolling through teams.

The one thing I would point out from last night is that as a team I think we went ok. At 12-6 up I was impressed with how we'd played because they threw loads at us but we invited them back in to the game. I'd bag Smith on last nights showing but I certainly wouldn't go too hard at the side as a whole. It was a top of the table class in its own right and their pretty much full strength side had just enough to see off our side devoid of 6 players including its two biggest attacking threats.

It's more down to the poor quality of superleague but we'll be massively in the mix for trophies.

Dark mild is ok but prefer Hydes bitter these days.
Actually I'm quite calm about the club at the moment in that I know we are poor therefore don't expect anything this season.
I'm just passionate and sick to the back teeth of full time pros being part time wrestlers and body builders. It's a very simple game being made complicated by simple men with too much time on their hands but can't make time for basic skills to be practicised on a regular and consistent basis.
How many one on one sessions has SW done in his career to help develop a player? Probable answer is none. How many wrestling sessions does he attend? Probable answer is that he organises most of them.
Just tired of rhetoric on toughness, middles, edges, d and how often we play dumb. Sick of pathetic communications from the club at a time when expectations of good and timely communications are a given in society as a whole.
I know I rant but it's in despair that I can see the whole charade of Uncle Mo all over again where ostriches rule the roost in a desert of of mediocrety.

Watch the NRL and take an interest in some sides there, Itchy. There's some great footy being played out there. I know it's not the same as watching your team (less painful for a start!

) but...

Warrington led by Chris Sandow

The whole sport in the UK is in decline, not just Wigan. I'm generally in agreement with you and have posted many times along similar lines (centres doing a props job, etc). Neither am I an out and out SW fan but I am certain we will play with more flair when our troops return from injury. However, the fare on offer will be thin gruel compared to the NRL.
Re MM he plays 50 odd minutes not 40 and you can't call SOL a prop and still insist Williams is a 7 IMO. Finally, where's that good chippy you mentioned because they too are in sad decline IMO

Can't remember the last Aussie game that I watched. Must have been years ago when they were on Sky.
I've only seen short highlights of Widnes prior to Thursday but they try to play some decent rugby. A bit short on quality forwards but they currently have a good work ethic which will probably not be enough against the wire who will walk the LLS this season.

I think the mistake I made between losers at Cheltenham was to watch highlights of the 2010 to 2012 seasons when we played some decent stuff.




I'll get over it. I think for some fans the penny hasn't dropped yet on how poor we actually are. Anyone who lists missing Isa as one of reasons for our recent displays as some do have accepted mediocrity knowingly or subconsciously not sure which.

SW who I actually like and nothing like what opposing fans think he is has to make changes but I'm sure that he actually can or will. If he doesn't then IL will.
I would be very surprised if IL isn't already looking for a replacement. Crowds will decline very rapidly with the type of Rubgy being served up. I expect 10k for the HKR on Monday

Smith apologists need to watch Sandow's performance against Cas last night. Incredible. Now that's a #7.

The problem with Smith is because his skill set is so limited, it looks so much worse on the field when he has a bad game. Other halfbacks might have games where their basic skills let them down but might be able to cover it up with one moment of brilliance - match winning pass or run for example.

It's in Newtown around the corner from the Rolling Pin on Ormskirk Road