Who says they should not of been on the field? Are you saying no coach ever brings fresh props on after around 20 mins? Had they come on and then destroyed Wire i very much doubt you would be praising Noble for bringing them on. Instead youve done the usual thing and took a cheap swipe at Noble. Bringing F + F on at that time has many times in the past got us on the front foot. The idea was they would improve on what we had already done with Coley and Prescott.

Dont let the fact that Bailey went off injured around the same time cloud your judgement that maybe that also had an effect on the team as a whole.

i think you will find most fans don't agree with nobles by the clock subbing, why when we are kicking to wire would you send feka on!? why not wait till they have had their six?.
this was a major cock up by noble.......... again

Half the fans do with hindsight, if it had gone the other way (and quite easily could have) then how many people would put their hands up and say "I thought noble did the wrong thing to bring them on, but it worked out well"

Give over.

Can you honestly say you disagreed with F + F coming on at the time?

It didn't go the other way though did it? And to be honest, it's no surprise it didn't for the reasons I have given.



Yup. For the reasons I've already stated, bringing Fielden and Feka on at the time he did was an obvious mistake.

It was just totally unnecessary at the time of the substitutions.

I did, we were giving Wire the ball at the time as well. RHJ were Prescott and Coley in anyway not winning the battle with there opposite numbers?

Did they look fatigued?

Did we lose all momentum when they were taken off.

Its all well and good saying what if they had torn it up and taken us on, but the fact is they did not. They should not have been brought on the field at that time. Every man and his dog could see that.

Bailey and more importantly Riddell going off did hurt us, but not as much as allowing Wire back into the game with a very poor tactical call.

You may not like it RHJ but again today highlighted BN has reached his level he has stabilised the club, but he is in no way the man to take us forward, he has had so many chances now and failed on every occasion.

Its not a swipe at the coach, it presenting a fact on the events of the game.

You might as well talk to a brick wall.

If the truth be know i bet most of these lot where rubbing their hands when Feka came on expecting him to make a big impact.

And we might as well talk to a brick wall when highlighting Noble's failings as coach of Wigan RL.

Maybe you were but again many were not, don't judge others by you wrong calls and as it turns out BN's. We had everything in our favour when our starting Props were on the field there was no reason to change them, they did not look tired yet we did, and that effectivly cost us the game.

I am unsure how you can deffend the error made by Noble or try to justify it on the evidence of the game we have just seen? You can speculate on what if Feka and Fielden had done this that and the other but the FACT is it was a wrong call and cost us the momentum, the fact is also others maybe not you recognised the time was also not right to change things, you did not fair enough but all we can say is it did indeed cost us.

There is no fact in your post other than you 'think' that 'maybe' if F+F had not come on at that point we 'might' of won.

Plenty mights and maybes Jonh.

Of course it is easy to look back in hindsight and say if only we had not changed things at that point what might of happened. The problem is,Noble changed things for a reason. That reason was he thought F+F could further get on top of the opposition and we could really put some points on them before half time and truth be known i expected Feka to have a blinder today. Bringing F+F on at that stage has worked for the past month or 2 so why wouldnt it work today?

Its far too easy to try to be 'wise after the event' which your orignal post seems to be.

But your not highlighting any failings your simply trying to be wise after the event and doing what was always going to happen if we lost this game and thats blame Noble.

But the reason for that is Noble has proved he is unable to adapt his tactics part way through a match, and despite having numerous opportunities, it has only become apparent he can take us no further.

Whether or not you could see it, the timing of the substitution today cost us the match, and Noble should have realised his timing was out.

I feel you're missing it tbh, it's not so much the timing as the actual performance put in by the two substitutes. If they'd played a blinder we would have kicked on regardless of the timing.

No it's definately you who's missing the point here.

The timing of the substitution gave Feka sod all chance of 'playing a blinder'.

He was f*cked before he'd even had a touch of the ball.

At the moment of the substitution were we struggling? No.

Did either Coley or Prescott look like they needed a break? No.

Did we lose the match in the 20 minutes following the substitution? Yes.

Nail on the head which i have been trying to get across all along.

The individual performances from Fielden and Feka were what cost us and add to that Roberts inability to defend the high ball against Matt King.

He would have to defend at some point in the game. Are you trying to say if he had come on whilst we had the ball he would not have to do any defensive work? Maybe not for a few sets but eventually Wire would of got the ball and done the exact same thing to him.

Seriously i've heard it all now.

If only they'd been subbed a few minutes later, and still played like utter crap we'd have won the game. They had to come on at some point, and as long as they were going to play crap it was going to be hard.

Warrington were [ialways[/i going to try and tire out feka no matter which minute he entered the game.

What else happened in the following 20 minutes? oh that's right bailey went off injured as well.

Warrington were already getting back into the game in the few minutes before feka+stuart came on the field, which is probably why it was felt a good time to bring them on and add something different.

It turned out to be wrong because of the performances put in, can you seriously believe they would have played better if brought on later, and if so how later, 2 minutes, 5, 7, 9.3? what was the magic criteria?

Jesus i'm not even a big fan of BN and feel we may need a change, but I can at least try and be objective

Its only nail on head because you agree with it.

The fact is i and it appears lots of others thought it was a bad idea to make the subs, especially given the fact we were going well and showing no signs of fading.

BN has subbed by the clock throughout his time at Wigan and more often than not it has harmed us.

The point is ok maybe you agree with BN that it was the right time to bring on said subs, but you like BN were wrong.

Not only was it too early, but why bring them on when we are about to do a defensive set? It made no sense what so ever and again the fact is it cost us the game.

RHJ should i post all my opinionions of the game while it is being played?

Its not the first nor probably the last time it has cost us subbing by clock it is something that BN has always dome regardless of how the game is going and exposes another limitation of his coaching. Fact.

jonh i didn't even think we were 'going well' in the run up to the subs, just goes to show everybody can interpret the same game in totally different ways.

They weren't brought on at the best of times but there is no way you can blame Noble for how e Feka and Fielden were.

You dont have a fact in you!

The only fact in this thread is that it was always going to be Brian Nobles fault if we lost this game because of people like yourself who like to act the wise man after the event.

Basically your posts are nothing but hindsight and thus should be taken with a pinch of salt.

Not in my opinion, and others, i personally at the time had to question why we brought them on especially as we were going into a defensive set and Feka for all his good points is not a great defender.

Is it also not possible to look back on an event in hindsight and analyse it. Regardless of if we agreed with the sub or not at the time, do you not agree looking back it was an error to change Props at that time and it had a major effect on the result. Do you not also see thagt bringing Feka on when going into a defensive set was an odd choide to say the least?

The difference between me and you is RJH I am happy to praise BN when he gets it right as he undoubtedly did/has over the last few weeks, but you are totally unable to see his weaknesses or at least acknowledge them, which he clearly displayed today.

Justy had a pint with an ex and current GB prop who i was chatting to in my local through a mutual friend neither were complementary about our tactics today, especially the use of our Props.

I certainly did not agree. Feka would not even be in my 17.

and sidestep his way through for a try. He has been poor for weeks.