As you say, it’s subjective. There isn’t a definition for it and unless there is people will never agree.

I don’t think being a top 10 player in a position like wing, when there are two of them, I’d pushing ‘world class’ too far but you do and that’s fair enough. If we’re just saying world class is being good enough to stake a claim for a world 13 (for example) then no way Makinson makes it and dare I say it, but Walmsley doesn’t either (or Bateman).

Just as an aside, there is no one that moves off the mark or takes exception to being tackled as much as Marshall.

Every time he gets up he looks incredulously at the ref as though he can’t believe someone has had the audacity to tackle him. He’s done that for a while too, trying to milk a penalty every ptb.

He’s far worse than Walmsley.

Yes, there's someone far worse than both of them and that's Jake Connor.

Now it must have been difficult knowing he was the 4th best FB on the field, but on every tackle and on every play he's got something to say to the ref.

He obviously milked the pen from Partington, he was moaning to the ref when his flick pass didn't come off (probably cost Hull the game with it) and also tried to claim the DG didn't go over. Worst for me tho, was him trying to get Partington sent off following a weak high tackle. He's signalling 3 (as in how many times OP had been penalised) and gesturing for a card.

I hope Wane saw all of that tonight and leaves Connor sat at home on his couch watching the WC.

Well that excludes Bateman as being world class then.

And Walmsley as he’s behind-

Haas
Fisher-Harris
Campbell-Gillard
Saifiti

He’s top 10 but no way top 2-3 in the world.

It’s all about definitions of world class.

I think the difference is he never gets them



You're right though, he does too much of it for my liking. Although in his defence I'm with him that anyone should have the audacity to tackle any Wigan player. The RFL should sort it out. Do they not know we own them?

Mutterings on RedVee about not risking Walmsley tonight, understandable with the cup next week but if they struggle against this Leeds team at the minute without him then maybe a few doubts will creep him and questions get started to be asked

What is your criteria for saying that Walmsley's behind those other props??He
is the best Prop in Superleague and would walk into any NRL team. The same cannot be said about Bateman.

Criteria? It’s pretty simple, they’re better than he is and are proving it in the best league in the world, against each other and a number of other props who are top 10-15 in the world and also some beastly loose forwards like Taumalolo and Fa'asuamaleaui.

I can buy Walmsley being world class, absolutely I can but we’re living in a dream world if we’re putting him on a par with Haas, Fisher-Harris etc.

Again it comes back to definitions. If world class is top ten (ish) then yes, if world class is top 2 or 3 (as Nathan said) then not for me, not a chance.

By the same token, if it’s top 10 then Bateman is in, if it’s top 2 or 3 then he isn’t.

You mean the Bateman that did walk into an NRL side and won the Dally M as best 2nd rower in the comp? That Bateman?

This debate has been done to death mate. Read the thread and save us all some time.

Walmsley, Lees, Matautia, Amor, Grace and Hopoate missing tonight. Not sure about you NK but I make that 6

I'd back us with 6 out at the minute against Leeds

I was waiting for that



I think you could’ve been shy of 16 tonight and you should still get the win.

Typical Saints luck, your missing 6 and Leeds raise you with about 24 missing

Haha. I don’t think it’ll be a walkover but we should still have enough there. Very light pack for us with only 2 out and out props but we should have too much quality for them.

I actually don’t think it’s a bad thing for Saints going forward to have a few injuries (as long as they’re short term). Those lads like Norman, Bennison, Royle, Wingfield etc need minutes in a team where it feels like people expect them to perform and win games, rather than just being rolled out to give others rests, which for any team seems to result in a drop in intensity across the board.

Yeah I get you. It’s not like we’ve chosen to make 10 changes and almost accepted a defeat the week before a final whatever. There’ll be an element of pressure tonight. Be interesting to see how they cope. I know you joked about Wingfield the other day in terms of his standing as a 1st teamer but I rate him highly. Hope he gets some good minutes tonight.

It was a joke, I do know who the lad is to a point. I can’t say I’ve seen a lot of him but I have heard positive things.

So I’m guessing this has been put to bed now?

No Lees, Walmsley, Grace, Hopoate, Mautatia. There’s 5.

Amor can count as 6.

Child absolutely hammered us with six agains.No matter how poor Leeds have been, to nil any SL team is a superb effort

Eh?

The whole talk was a lack of an injury crisis and it’s not that yet is it?!

You do realise Leeds we’re missing Myler, Fusitua, Newman, Sezer, Dwyer. Tetevano, Mellor, Holroyd and Thompson don’t you? And they lost Oledzki and Bentley during the game.

Saints were pretty good tonight but the whole debate has been can Saints do it week to week during an injury crisis. If the other team has one far worse it’s not going to prove a great deal.

You’re moving the goalposts now. Last week you challenged us to find a single game where we had 5 missing. Tonight we had 6 missing. Yes I know Leeds had players missing too.

We are constantly told we are a one man team. No Walmsley no win.

Don’t talk sense, did you not know the Saints of 2022 are unbeatable?

I thought it was really encouraging for the other 10 SL sides this evening for 55/60 mins; they’re not unbeatable. And before a Saints fan corrects me, I know Walmsley, Hopoate, Grace, Matauitia et al were missing. I think Catalans will fancy their chances next week.

Don’t go all YG on us mate, it’s been done over and again. The whole debate (as you know) was about how Saints would deal with an injury crisis. That isn’t moving the goalposts at all. One game against a Leeds club with their confidence as low as a snakes belly and missing 9 players (and losing 2 more during the game) is hardly going to settle that debate is it?

As for the one man team thing, I’ve certainly never said that and don’t think that in the slightest (I know you’re not throwing that specifically at me by the way). You beat us in a Grand Final with Walmsley on one leg. Any thoughts of that went west that night.

Not seen the game tonight, why were they missing? Obviously know about Grace who's been a long term injury.

Not sure with Grace because didn’t he come back last week?

Walmsley being saved for the cup by the sounds of things.

I can see a pattern....this time last year there would have been a covid breakout at saints (again)