It wasn't the only reason (Lockers at 6) we lost the game but ironically Matty Smith's arrival made it a nailed on certainty Lockers would play 6 today. We knew that last week when Smith played at 9.

The irony is Saints recalled Smith from loan at a club he was destined to sign for and he helped them to get to a GF.

I think had we done the same with Mellor we would have done better today particularly on defence. Lockers never was a stand off when he was younger. Now as he approaches the end of his career he is definitely a forward not a back and the mistakes he made defensively today were IMO a lot to do with where he was on the park.

Speaking from experience - one Challenge Cup win in 34 years.

The story of the game is quite easy to sum up in all honesty, just that nobody has had the balls to say it. Sam Tomkins gifted Leeds a 16 point lead from which you never recovered.

As a neutral fan Ben Thaler was Diabolical! 2-3 major errors gifted tries to Leeds! he should be dropped for two weeks but we know that will not happen!

What has happened to defences in RL? it is more like tick rugby at times!

Dropping Thaler won't get us back in the cup.
Early on I knew not only would we have to beat Leeds but would have to beat the ref and give him no opportunity to award against us. SAMs face said it all at one point after yet another shocking decision.

That said, Leeds retained ball and field position, the correct tactic, and that was our downfall.
Credit were due though, we knew there was a lot on the watch and did not panic, scoring a lot of points that Thaler could not chalk off, and almost pulling off the win.

We lost the game because we were totally out enthused. Leeds wanted it more and this was apparent in every aspect of the game.

We had players who were clearly not 100%. Charnley looked to be running on one and half legs whilst McIllorum just wasnt himself and should not of played.

Sinfield kicked us to death but we didnt apply any pressure to him whatsoever likewise Burrow who was just allowed to run wherever he liked. Our defence was non exsistant and lethargic.

Our forwards looked half baked from the start. There was a complete lack of determination from them going forward and they were easily handled by Leeds.

In attack we were stood far too flat and bunched up. The wave of runners weve seen all year just wasnt there making it very easy for Leeds to defend against. Finch had no running options and was forced to try some crazy impossible passes that were never on.

Basically there was nothing in us from the start. Im not bothered in the slightest that we lost as i dont get any excitement from the CC these days. The Grand Final is the one to win these days. Last year i was so gutted when we failed to reach Old Trafford and in a way im glad we are not going to Wembley so the players can focus 100% on getting to the Grand Final. I got the feeling the players also had the same thought.

Very harsh to blame Sam for the first try IMO. I doubt you'll want to replay it but if you do, keep an eye on Charnley. He's the player that should have got under the bomb. When it went up, he was in the perfect position to go for it but for reasons unknown went walkabout infield.

The first try was all about Sinfield - brilliant kick.

As a rhinos fan thanks for the majority of contributors who whilst acknowledging
Refereeing clangers agreed the rhinos were the better team.
One thing has puzzled me for some time is your playing of Tompkins at full back, without doubt he is the best attacking player in the super league so all his line breaks usually come from deep.thus giving defenses more time to haul him down.yes I know he murdered us at headingley from full back,but he is not a full back. He is not comfortable under a high ball,and his tackling is sometime suspect. I think yesterday's defeat will galvanize your team, and will result in a massive attempt in lifting the grand final trophy.

He's at fullback because it's his best position. Errors do happen but perhaps not as often as some non-Wigan fans seem to think. 90% of the time if he does make an error he does more than enough in attack to make up for it.

As many have said, it's harsh to criticise him for not catching Sinfield's kick for the opening try. He had to move across the field trying to keep his eyes on the ball, ignore the players coming towards him while trying to catch a ball that was always moving away from him. The credit should go to a fantastic kick that plenty of fullbacks would struggle with, even those world beaters down under.

So yes, he is a fullback, and most of the time he is comfortable under the high ball. In fact he's taken some excellent catches at times. He's certainly no more error prone than those who went before him in recent times, except perhaps Roberts at his very best.

Never the less I would still play him at stand off,just imagine a scrum twenty five yards from the opposition line with Sam running at you with ball in hand I would back him most times to beat the first tackler. As a rhinos fan I am more than happy for you to play him at full back.

He can do exactly what you just described when playing at fullback. In fact he has done and to much greater effect because there's more space to work with out wide and it's easier to step a player who is sliding across when you cut back inside on an angled run, which is something Tomkins does well. In terms of his running game Tomkins is so much better at fullback than stand off.

That's not to say he wouldn't be good at stand off because he's already proven that he can be the best stand off in Super League as well as the best fullback. Stand off just requires him to take a different approach and use different skills. Also, more importantly, Wigan's structure is built around creative halfbacks on both sides who pass the ball and only run very occasionally. Playing in that manner would waste most of Tomkins' best attributes whilst also require a change in the way the team plays.

To be honest, Wigan was a bit hard done by, we were gifted 2 tries that should not of been tries, that forward pass was a mile forward and Mguire knocked the ball on so none should of been given. I have always say you need the rub of the green in big games and a need a bit of luck and we had it on the day.

I think we was the better side and deserved it but no Wigan fans are saying we dont, the ones I have spoken to are just a bit miffed at the ref and I can see their point.

I have no doubt that you guys wont bounce back, your such a good team, the best in super league this year by a long way.

Much as at Wembley last year, there were some duff decisions, but the better side won on the day.

I'm surprised that nobody has brought this up.

The 40:20 that Tomkins let go into touch, he looked quizzical when it was given. The reason, the referee is supposed to shout "FORTY" if the ball is kicked from inside the 40 metre area. I don't believe Thaler did as he went to the video ref.

Just watch and listen to the Wire v Huddersfield game yesterday and Silverwood can be heard shouting the "FORTY"

Referees would normally shout "40", but for whatever reason Thaler didn't - just as he initially very demonstratively waved "play on" when Hall lost the ball on the Wigan line before changing his mind seconds later to award Leeds a penalty (a word in his ear from VR Ganson?). And no one will ever know why he didn't go to VR for the Maguire knock-on - even Jonathan Davies and the other BBC pundits slated him for that. The forward pass he gave against Wigan with them attacking on the right flank with 5 minutes to go was less forward than the one to Peacock for their 3rd try. And how about the blatant knock-on when Ablett let go of the ball when dazed before the 2nd try? Silverwood penalised a less blatant Huddersfield fumble at the play the ball yesterday.

Wigan did have the rub of the green in last year's final with the forward pass for Lima's 2nd try, the scrum that was awarded to Wigan 4 minutes to go when the ball came off Charnley, as well as Tommy try being awarded (correct decision that one, but some VRs (eg Ian Smith!) might have disallowed it for losing control of the ball while grounding. Having said all that, though, Ablett should have been penalised for an incorrect play the ball in the build-up to Leeds 2nd try which would have given a penalty to Wigan on the Leeds 20.

Swings and roundabouts, or something in Thaler's sub-conscious......?!!

The ref doesn't shout 40, I'm pretty sure they shout 'inside' or 'outside' depending on where the kick is taken. I'm also pretty sure that he says it for his own benefit to make it easier to decide on 40/20 calls rather than for the players benefit.

Silverwood definitely shouted FORTY yesterday and I've heard it shouted at lots of academy games. That's why I was interested if Thaler had done so on Saturday. Sam certainly didn't hear it.

Watched it back, Thaler does say 40 but not really loud enough for someone who was around 30 yards away at the time, he follows it up immediately with a much louder shout of ''you're offside Ryan''. Bit strange he then asks for the video ref to confirm it but probably just making sure, happens often with 40/20's. The kick Sinfield put up for the first try was a shocker for anyone to be fair to Tomkins, credit goes to Hall to for being in just the right place, a yard or two further back from him and the ball might just of bounced into touch.

Can you check on the replay whether the 2nd Leeds man (Ablett?) running up towards Sam was actually onside at the kick? I think he may have encroached within the 10 when Sam dropped the ball. Hall was definitely onside, and although Ablett(?) didn't touch the ball he could have been given offside - admittedly this would be very harsh, but the same thing happened in a game last year ( Catalans play off?) and the try was ruled out by the VR.

Looking at it now i think Ablett is just ok, it's close, but just onside, he does run very hard after the kick to put the pressure on Tomkins. Would be harsh, but Warrington got one disallowed against Leeds at Headingley this year for the same thing and Australia too against England in the 4 Nations Final so going by them it would of been disallowed if offside but he just stayed on.

Thanks for confirming - it would have been yet another "bad decision".

In the final analogy, though, Leeds were the better team and deserved to win. Just can't get over how lethargic/lacking in energy so many of the Wigan pack were: Lima, Mossop, MM, Hansen, Tuson. Only Hock, Flower and Farrell were conspicuous when going forward.

Lima was understandably lacking match fitness and the same probably goes for Tuson and Hansen who missed a few weeks. McIlorum didn't seem to be fully fit while Mossop has been the cornerstone of the Wigan pack in Lima's absence, had played the midweek Exiles game and then had to lead a weakened Wigan pack without getting much of a rest. With other players in the pack not offering much go forward it doesn't surprise me that Mossop also struggled.

I think the start just rattled them and in turn got Leeds' tails up, if Sinfield put's in 2 poor kicks instead in those opening 6 minutes then no scores, no pressure, no concern. It's not a position Wigan have found themselves in much if at all over the last 3 seasons to be 16-0 down early on, it's usually the other way round, so must of come to a bit of a shock to the system for the players and it can't help if you've never been in that scenerio before to know how to cope, although they did give it a good shot, after the first 12 mins Wigan actually outscored Leeds 28-23. As i've witnessed at Leeds a few times over the last 18 months, when the match isn't going your way some forwards don't seem as keen to put their hand up and change that, when it is going well everyone seems to want the ball (view the praise the likes of Kirke & Griffin are getting on the Leeds board atm), strange but how it goes sometimes.

Leeds did what they set out to do, Wigan didn't. Maybe money pressure, injury pressure and expectation to win got to a lot of players, whereas Leeds got on with the job at hand. Wane should look at resting a few players for the big push. Gelling should be dropped, watch a replay of him from May and compare him to how he's playing now, he's not improved one bit. Faz has got to learn how to commit a fullback and learn how to pass, he looks th epart at loose forward. Sam needs to go to the Stevie Hampson school of bomb defusal. Matty Smith could not have come at a better time, thank the Lord!
Lets applaud Leeds and move on.