Already are a minor sport in reality. Would have been a different story had Maurice had his way and still been in charge.

I'm beginning to remember why I buggered off from rlfans 2 years ago. The mass hysteria on here because one player has signed for a RU club is beyond contempt. Typical RL fans, rubbish at promoting the sport but excellent at predicting it's death. People said League would be dead in 5 years when RU went pro, we're still here.

Stop complaining, get involved with your local junior RL setups if you care about the future of the sport so much, and start doing your bit.

A merged Hull club might be in with a shout. But I agree that only Wigan and Leeds would definitely make a combined RU/RL top flight. Oddly, Wigan with all its history and the massive rugby playing base in the area would I think be embraced by RU. They would see us the northern Leicester - working class roots, massive club, massive player base. With the RU media behind Wigan you could market it as a North West franchise, the club would get crowds coming from across the NW, and the debate about the DW would be irrelevant because like Leicester we would need a much bigger stadium. Leeds similarly would be an enormous club as effectively the Yorkshire "rugby" franchise.

Grim though the prospect of surrender to the RU is - and I mean that, a hugely strengthened Wigan Rugby Club would be only a tiny consolation - I'm beginning to think that we may need to consider it.

The southern hemisphere bias of RU globally means that the rules and tempo of the game have improved a lot in the last 20 years. Yes it's still pretty dull compared with RL but RU is a much better game than in the days of Rob Andrew when barely 20 mins of play would happen in 80 mins.

The Super 14 competition seems to be played at an increasingly RL style tempo, with much less emphasis on the so-called "technical areas" of RU. RU seems to be evolving our way just as our game's management and administration is found wanting, leaving us appallingly weak, only able to pay players in real terms 70% of what they were paid just over a decade ago.

The alternative to joining RU seems to be RL becoming a third rate sport like RL in France, it's proud history behind it. I do think RL would have a viable independent future if the right structures and management were in place but the poor administration of the game and the blinkered, parochial and stupid attitude of many in the RL establishment and many supporters mean that this future is slipping away.

There's very little time left now, I'm afraid. Either the game sorts itself out or the options will be surrender to RU or a French standard of competition.

Even if this was the case and Wigan and Leeds were the only clubs to make it in to the top division I would be confident that the world class talent coming through in the North would take the likes of St Helens and Hull to the top.

Wigan and Leeds would be huge clubs but not if it was played as rugby union. I would not attend if it was to much like RU and this is why it would probably never work.

RU definantly seems to want to head the way RL has in terms of attacking play, this is certainly seen down under. I was showing my union mates at uni the Carmont try from sunday, they thought it was amazing.... we see tries like that week in week out. I am certain that if RU fans watched our product rather than making excuses of why they won't, they would actually love it.

How old are you people? the potential for a merged version of the two codes has been discussed for a long time, with many people proclaiming it WILL happen. It hasn't, and never will. Give it up, you're all talking b****cks.

Oh yes your bang on.....I imagine there would be a stadium just off the Runcorn expressway that would be packing in the fans to see the Cheshire Cats...or whatever the Warrington and widnes merged team was going to be.



just a few years ago our average crowd was 4,500 yours was about 8,000 all clubs have improved crowds some dramatically

think back to all that success of Wigan and having average crowds of 8,000 it doesnt seem real....

we are in a far better place than those days.

Sometimes we are worse than scousers with self pity..oo we never get in the papers, we never get on the TV, Union gets all the coverage, now theyre stealing our players. blah blah

it is COMMON absolute COMMON knowledge that Rugby union is poop its poop end of. I work in Manchester and fortunately dont deal with Sale fans but all the city and united fans agree that Union is poop and League is the better tougher faster sport....

guess what they are never going to attend a game of rugby league because they are football mad and thats the be all and end all.

lets take the compliments and carry on shipping out the Chris Ashtons....I remember (courtesy of buying my ticket late ) standing in the Wigan end with my Wigan mates at the HJ When Kevin Penny in his first season of rugby league made Chris Ashton look like a complete and utter carthorse on numerous occasions.
I dont remember Wigan fans saying what a star This Chris Ashton is we should pay him bucket loads to stay.

read that above paragraph again and lets not worry eh?

It's an unfortunate sickness that gets passed among RL fans. Self pitying losers who feel like the world owes them and their sport something. The reality is the world owes RL NOTHING and if the sport wants to become richer and more prosperous as a result, it has to GO OUT THERE AND GET IT, instead of sitting around telling itself it deserves more.

I am not suggesting it will or should happen. All I am saying is that RL will not outgrow RU any other way will it. For the people who wish the sport was huge, that is their answer.... I'm pretty happy, I love RL and I think it will grow over the next 20 years with new stadiums etc. but RU is going much faster.

How do you know they don't already?

Pretty presumptuous of you.

If your tolerance of other folk's opnions is as microscopic as this - "mass hysteria", "beyond contempt" - I'm beginning to see why you buggered off as well.

Are you doing your bit paul

Ahmen Paul,

Imagine The NRL adopting the same policy under its threat from Aussie rules, Union AND football instead they generate this little beauty.
[urlhttp://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/league-news/blaze-of-glory-nrl-hopes-new-bon-jovi-ad-will-impress-millions-20110301-1bda7.html[/url
I wonder if the RFL still have Cliff Richards number?

I helped to found and build this website from nothing, and it now is sponsoring a junior RL team and doing a lot of good in general. In a round about way, I'd say that's been a positive contribution over the course of 10 years before life got in the way and I can't dedicate as much time to it for the forseeable future.

Actually I'd say the NRL doing that is a pretty good example of getting off it's and going out there and doing something impressive. Pointing out a commercially excellent idea and saying it's not an example of the sport doing exactly what I said is a bit confusing

How do you know many of the 'self-pitying losers' you refer to aren't also doing their bit, or haven't, as you have, found that life has got in the way?

Great stuff..... however, how dare you assume that nobody else is doing their bit. My plans are working towards a job in RL.....

People who already are, I tip my hat to them. I think you & I both know though, that the majority simply care about one thing: They want to see Wigan(or their club of preference) win trophies. And there's nothing wrong with that, pretending to care about the health of the sport as far as the other clubs go though is a bit rich - at least those people who use phrases like "smaller clubs" and "preventing the best from being better" are at least being honest.



It's my tolerance for the viewpoints in general. What I've read on rlfans over the past few days is no different to what people were saying on USENET 15 years ago, predicting the demise of the sport within the next few years, blah blah blah. It seems people don't really learn or pay attention to what has gone on before.

I'm speaking from experience, have I called any individual a self pitying loser? Nope. Just many RL fans who I happen to know personally that never stop complaining about the lack of money/media coverage/anything-else that is afforded to RL, and yet do nothing themselves to help rectify that, even nothing as simple as helping to distribute flyers/posters advertising the game in their local area. (And yes, I do, and have, done that in the past). I consider that, given how many I know personally are like this, it is not unreasonable to take the standpoint that there are many more across the RL fanbase that are much the same.

I don't think it's unreasonable to be frustrated by the 'couch potato' element who follow the game, but there are many on this message board who are involved with junior set-ups, and most of the others who post travel home and away, so they put their money into the coffers of various RL clubs. I think that entitles them to a view. And though I don't agree with the OP on this thread, I can't accept that having concerns about losing players to RU is "beyond contempt".

That's pretty choice language for something that is NOT a non-issue and DOES need to be discussed.

I know that moves are now afoot at higher levels to do something about this, but to be fair, the RFL aren't making a big song and dance about it. People can be forgiven for thinking they're happy to just do nothing.

Losing players to RU and being concerned about that is not the bit I find to be beyond contempt. It's the mistaken belief that losing a few players is the death knell of the sport and it's all going to come collapsing around us in a pile of rubble. People need to show a bit of perspective.

I don't disagree with that.

But I think we now have to act to stem the tide of defections.

It isn't a huge tide, but we haven't got so vast a reservoir of talent that we can just ignore it.

If you would care to take your head out of the sand and look around, you would see that the game already is in demise.

Time was when the stock argument to such views on this board were "Well you would say that as Wigan are not winning anything". Most on here said that was bolleaux at the time.

You can no longer use that one. Wigan won SL last year and are favourites to win everything this year, yet we are still making the same point.

Will the sport collapse overnight? Of course not. Could it be here in 20 years? Absolutely. Will it be retain or improve it's position in the UK sporting pecking order without a major overhaul? Not a chance.

It's not just the RU international fixtures that are ahead of RL. They quite often fill Wembley or Twickenham for a LEAGUE game. That's what 80,000 people?

We couldn't fill Cardiff with similar numbers with ALL the SL teams over 2 days.

Time to wake up and smell the coffee for a lot within the RL "community".

Exactly. The TV coverage alone makes RL look second rate. Empty seats down at Cardiff when EVERY RL team play there over two days. Just looks bad.
I'd actually like to know the average SL attendance. The 'mean' average is probably completely dispreportational due to a few big clubs.

RL is obsessed with expanding the range of the sport-this isn't a bad thing, but letting well founded clubs suffer in the process is. Practically driven away fans from major RL clubs such as Widnes and Halifax.

The direction SL clubs are allowing our sport to be taken will kill the sport.
Currently if you support a non SL club you have nothing to aim for, and dont give me any BS about maybe getting a franchise sometime. The game below SL is being killed and 11 clubs will not sustain a national game, as non SL fans become more and more disenfranchised and abandon the sport.
If I were the RFU I would target a club like Leigh with fantastic facilities to showcase the game, and throw resource at it with a 5/10 year plan to recruit all the best junior RL kids and convert them to RU. The cash and structures taking kids to SL Academies from non SL heartland areas would be insignificant when compared to what would be on offer from RU.
RL must unite or accept our fate of semi pro.

I'm the one with my head in the sand? LoL. Oh you know what, forget it, I agree with you all - RL can't possibly increase it's revenues (and as a result afford to pay out higher wages by default), nobody comes to watch the games anyway, and that's all the RFL's fault. let's continue to rely on a few wealthy benefactors propping up the finances of the currently big clubs, and if any of those benfactors go away for whatever reason, and that club implodes, oh well, it sucks to be them.

I agree with the franchise issue. Franchises were supposed to allow clubs to put in stable financial plans for the future, without the threat of relegation this was supposed to stop clubs from overspending in an effort to stay in SL, due to their being less pressure. That has obviously not been the case, and from where I was sitting, it was really the only sensible/valid "pro" in the pro's and con's list of franchises.

I'd be perfectly happy to see proper P&R come back in to RL.