[quote="Stu M":vephbjw6]This isn't sour grapes as I've said the exact same thing on Red Vee but the points you make on Vaughan are valid. I don't know what his USP is. He's not big, he's not super strong and he's not quick. He's a competitor no question but I don't know where he fits in. You are spot on in that he could well turn out to be a Bateman. In 2-3 years time it will be clear who made the right decision. It's not a great look when die hard Saints fans are making the decision to go to Wigan although to be fair perhaps you could return serve with Welsby who was a Wigan fan and ended up at Saints. Also it's worrying when Wigan are signing lads from the likes of Thatto Heath who again are St Helens lads born and bred and fans of the club but that's another conversation. I've been very critical of the club of late and nothing is changing my mind however to play devils advocate, I do wonder if they are putting a lot of faith in Jake Davies and Billy Keeley, both back-rowers a couple of years younger and well thought of. Perhaps they've looked at the emergence of those two who knows. That's an assumption on my part that I am clinging onto![/quote:vephbjw6] Davies and Keeley are no Nsembe, they are years off regular first team action. Welsby wasn't a Wigan Warriors fan, he only ever wanted to sign for Saints.

[quote="Stu M":31svxn9w]Thinking about it a bit more, Wigan were well stocked with back rowers and had a succession plan but losing as many as they have means you can understand why they have looked at Vaughan. Shane Eccles will have coached him for England Academy and will know him well but over the last few years they've lost Isa, KPP, Nicholson, Bateman, even James McDonnell. I may have missed some more out there Mason and Kerr are backrowers I believe? Vaughan will add to the competition particularly if Farrell's minutes are more limited in 2026.[/quote:31svxn9w] Kerr's a loose forward I think, albeit a versatile one who could easily be played at second row to begin with. He's played in the halves during preseason, so all being well he'll be able to get his chance irrespective of our plans with Vaughan.

[quote="NSW":28ugcugc]To be fair they stopped NRL interest in Delaney. I spoke to Radlinski and he alluded to Knowles signing a huge contract (this was in March 2022), stopped NRL interest in Welsby And signed Feldt, Murphy and Sailor who look like 3 good buys on paper. Daryl Clark wouldn’t have been a cheap replacement for Roby Think saints fans are being a little harsh on the club, they are in a transition period after years of dominance, it’ll happen to us too.[/quote:28ugcugc] I can't understand the signing of Sailor. In my view it restricts Robertson's progression unless Welsby is on his way soon.

[quote="Zig":32gfhfng]Davies and Keeley are no Nsembe, they are years off regular first team action. Welsby wasn't a Wigan Warriors fan, he only ever wanted to sign for Saints.[/quote:32gfhfng] Sam Tomkins was his idol and all his family were big fans.

[quote="NSW":32crvw5w]Would make sense Vaughan coming now. Can’t see a big name coming in unless someone unexpected leaves. Douglas is off contract (maybe replaced by Sambo?) Byrne is going to Wire but it’s looking like Hill will be the replacement (with McDermott etc back filling) Keighran is the big one, I’m not 100% sure Eckerlsey can slot straight in there but hopefully we’ll know during the year. Don’t think we’re in a place to sign a big player.[/quote:32crvw5w] Hill will eventually replace Ellis.

[quote="Phuzzy":1rngto9n]Stu, I'd be interested in seeing the "he's not all that comments" on Vaughan. I don't remember anything specifically relating to him but that's not to say there haven't been any. I think the comments have been more general and centred around Saints seeming reliance on the 'golden generation' and the fact that it's crazy to put your eggs in that particular basket. These signings actually go some way to proving that as there's two straight away who won't be having long first team careers at Saints (or however Mike Rush phrased it). Others may yet follow suit at some stage and then there's the usual ones that flatter to deceive etc. You mention the other side of the negotiations. Was this conducting them by message as rumoured on Redvee or something more?[/quote:1rngto9n] This is what Saints thought of them. https://www.sthelensstar.co.uk/sport/24 ... er-league/

[quote="Phuzzy":1rngto9n]Stu, I'd be interested in seeing the "he's not all that comments" on Vaughan. I don't remember anything specifically relating to him but that's not to say there haven't been any. I think the comments have been more general and centred around Saints seeming reliance on the 'golden generation' and the fact that it's crazy to put your eggs in that particular basket. These signings actually go some way to proving that as there's two straight away who won't be having long first team careers at Saints (or however Mike Rush phrased it). Others may yet follow suit at some stage and then there's the usual ones that flatter to deceive etc. You mention the other side of the negotiations. Was this conducting them by message as rumoured on Redvee or something more?[/quote:1rngto9n] This is what Saints thought of them. https://www.sthelensstar.co.uk/sport/24 ... er-league/

[quote="Stu M":zqe23820]You'll probably sign Robertson now... In all seriousness those 3 are very good players and I believe Stephens has signed a new 4 year deal. Robertson has been training at centre pre-season and again this has been offered up as a reason for Vaughan's disillusionment in that he is not starting. I think this Salford game in R1 is huge. Lose that and the atmosphere will very quickly become toxic. Depending on what team Salford are able to field will make a huge difference. If the takeover isn't complete then they can't play most of the players is my understanding. With a full strength team they are more than capable of beating us and Wellens plans of only having one pre-season friendly and resting half of the team will come back big time to bite him.[/quote:zqe23820] I think I may have been wrong about Stephens Stu but, trying to fit Robertson in at centre seems a mistake (square peg in a round hole). He is a natural fullback or standoff. Saints should have signed a centre and played Robertson as a pivot.

[quote="Stu M":2mxtflve]You'll probably sign Robertson now... In all seriousness those 3 are very good players and I believe Stephens has signed a new 4 year deal. Robertson has been training at centre pre-season and again this has been offered up as a reason for Vaughan's disillusionment in that he is not starting. I think this Salford game in R1 is huge. Lose that and the atmosphere will very quickly become toxic. Depending on what team Salford are able to field will make a huge difference. If the takeover isn't complete then they can't play most of the players is my understanding. With a full strength team they are more than capable of beating us and Wellens plans of only having one pre-season friendly and resting half of the team will come back big time to bite him.[/quote:2mxtflve] We may be looking for a fullback!

[quote="apollosghost":2skja8pa]Seems like a media blackout re. the two Saints lads, wonder if the clubs are negotiating a deal to release them for this season, Saints won't want to spend anymore time/cash on their development and Wigan won't want them out of a pro environment for 12 months[/quote:2skja8pa] I agree, a small transfer fee should do it.

[quote="Zig":2lawxeu6]I think I may have been wrong about Stephens Stu but, trying to fit Robertson in at centre seems a mistake (square peg in a round hole). He is a natural fullback or standoff. Saints should have signed a centre and played Robertson as a pivot.[/quote:2lawxeu6] As I've said before I don't think there is any intention to play him at centre regularly, it would merely be to increase his game time to cover for the inevitable injuries that Hurrell and Percival will have. I think they will look at trying to give him game time across the whole backline Good to see Stephens signing a 4 year deal. He will have a good season I feel and is in really good shape physically to kick on.

[quote="WWste":1eyk2h87]I don’t think Salford is a walk in the park as made out. They are a decent side and I imagine will be itching to settle things down on the pitch. I can see Saints getting beat in that game as they did in the pre season game with them[/quote:1eyk2h87] I don’t for one second think that Salford are a poor side. I just think that Saints will be highly motivated to deliver a big win and to get their season off to a really strong start.

[quote="Zig":2zusxcd0]We may be looking for a fullback![/quote:2zusxcd0] I’d be disappointed if Field was to exit but I’m pretty sure that if he is going that we will be already working on his replacement.

[quote="Itchy Arsenal":1uzrp6fc]I’d be disappointed if Field was to exit but I’m pretty sure that if he is going that we will be already working on his replacement.[/quote:1uzrp6fc] We have French, Farrimond can go in the halfs

[quote="The Whiffy Kipper":yot0xz8f]We have French, Farrimond can go in the halfs[/quote:yot0xz8f] Think we would need a 1 or 2 year replacement whilst we introduce Farrimond. Ideal situation Field stays for the 2025/6 seasons then Farrimond steps up.

Given Field got engaged whilst he was back in Oz, I'd expect at some stage in the next year or two he'll be considering a return home. We need to make the most of the time we have him! Him, French, Ellis and Miski seem really close and as much as it's a professional sport, the lure of keeping them all goes down once one of them goes.

[quote="Zig":1dhex45c]We may be looking for a fullback![/quote:1dhex45c] Perhaps this is why some time ago there were rumours we were interested in Ryan Brierley. Disappointed if Field left but of there's a decent offer in the NRL then it would be hardly unexpected he would go back. No doubt the club are ahead on this.

[quote="Zig":26mc8t3j]We may be looking for a fullback![/quote:26mc8t3j] Robertson been offered a good deal?

[quote="That Mon":2438py6d]Robertson been offered a good deal?[/quote:2438py6d] We keep showing interest in Welsby.

I imagine his 4 year deal only as a release clause to NRL at a certain fee. Can’t see him at Wigan unless it’s after a NRL stint that’s cut short for the usual reasons.

[quote="That Mon":16m5ju0b]I imagine his 4 year deal only as a release clause to NRL at a certain fee. Can’t see him at Wigan unless it’s after a NRL stint that’s cut short for the usual reasons.[/quote:16m5ju0b] this is from the club site, no mention of 2 + 2 or release clause. I know we wouldnt normally get told about the clause, but often the terms will be there ie 2 years plus 1 in the players / clubs favour https://wiganwarriors.com/blog/2024/01/ ... -new-deal/

[quote="That Mon":16m5ju0b]I imagine his 4 year deal only as a release clause to NRL at a certain fee. Can’t see him at Wigan unless it’s after a NRL stint that’s cut short for the usual reasons.[/quote:16m5ju0b] this is from the club site, no mention of 2 + 2 or release clause. I know we wouldnt normally get told about the clause, but often the terms will be there ie 2 years plus 1 in the players / clubs favour https://wiganwarriors.com/blog/2024/01/ ... -new-deal/

[quote="Mark_P1973":2t22d8q8]this is from the club site, no mention of 2 + 2 or release clause. I know we wouldnt normally get told about the clause, but often the terms will be there ie 2 years plus 1 in the players / clubs favour https://wiganwarriors.com/blog/2024/01/ ... -new-deal/[/quote:2t22d8q8] I remember somebody getting a 2+2 deal but wasn't that French with his previous deal to the one he's on now? The article this rumour came from seemed to suggest Field being off contract was common knowledge but it's not listed as such anywhere. It seems as though Field himself as suggested that is the case though, so it presumably is some sort of deal with options built in. The good thing from Wigans POV is that should Field want an NRL deal, he is going to be busting a gut to impress in 2025 and that can only be positive in the short term. Hopefully he's feeling 100% fit now because I don't think that was the case for much of last year.

[quote="Mark_P1973":2t22d8q8]this is from the club site, no mention of 2 + 2 or release clause. I know we wouldnt normally get told about the clause, but often the terms will be there ie 2 years plus 1 in the players / clubs favour https://wiganwarriors.com/blog/2024/01/ ... -new-deal/[/quote:2t22d8q8] I remember somebody getting a 2+2 deal but wasn't that French with his previous deal to the one he's on now? The article this rumour came from seemed to suggest Field being off contract was common knowledge but it's not listed as such anywhere. It seems as though Field himself as suggested that is the case though, so it presumably is some sort of deal with options built in. The good thing from Wigans POV is that should Field want an NRL deal, he is going to be busting a gut to impress in 2025 and that can only be positive in the short term. Hopefully he's feeling 100% fit now because I don't think that was the case for much of last year.

[quote="Zig":1r8izidg]We keep showing interest in Welsby.[/quote:1r8izidg] This is the issue now with Wigan's financial muscle. There are rumours from everywhere which creates a bit of scare-mongering. Don't get me wrong I'm as bad given that their wealth is worrying for the rest of SL, but there's no way Wigan are signing Welsby, Robertson and Lees.

I have absolutely zero desire to see Wigan sign Jack Welsby and I'd be surprised if the majority of the fanbase didn't feel the same way.

[quote="MadDogg":12aezxpw]I have absolutely zero desire to see Wigan sign Jack Welsby and I'd be surprised if the majority of the fanbase didn't feel the same way.[/quote:12aezxpw] Really? Because you don't like him as a person or feel he is over-rated?

[quote="Stu M":2jwe906x]This is the issue now with Wigan's financial muscle. There are rumours from everywhere which creates a bit of scare-mongering. Don't get me wrong I'm as bad given that their wealth is worrying for the rest of SL, but there's no way Wigan are signing Welsby, Robertson and Lees.[/quote:2jwe906x] true, but even with financial muscle we can only spend the same (apart from marquee) as everyone else. I know we could theoretically offer a transfer fee to clubs for other players, but we can still only spend on the actual cap the same as everyone else i think there are just loads of rumours flying around to wind up fans i know one of my Saints friends posted something last night about the potential signing of the 2 young lads, and about how they should be allowed to rot for being underhand, and Wigan are corrupt, speaking to players without permission etc etc. Until i pointed out that they were out of contract at the end of the season, and any club could speak to them, so nothing underhand or wrong with it, if they have signed for next season. I also told him to stop believing everything he reads on social media / forums until the clubs have formally announced something as all it does is wind everyone up