Quote ="Exeter Rhino"Latest from El Presidente: www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/ja ... -wrestling'" As I put on your forum. If hes so against it why as it taken him till Leeds winning nowt to demand it be cleaned up?? Think Wigan would welcome a quicker play the ball would suit our play!

Quote ="Exeter Rhino"Latest from El Presidente: www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/ja ... -wrestling'" As I put on your forum. If hes so against it why as it taken him till Leeds winning nowt to demand it be cleaned up?? Think Wigan would welcome a quicker play the ball would suit our play!

Did I say "we are so good, everyone hates us"?

I said, it doesn't matter if we are good/bad/indifferent, this site will always have the largest number of non-local traffic running through it. A Large number of which "Think" there on here winding us up when in fact the vast majority of us couldn't give a T055 what they think and in fact we're the ones who actually think They are quite funny!
Trust me, the 70-0 blip at the hands of Leeds was taken very seriously over here and I'm sure it provided yourselves with lots of amusement.
I just think you don't understand how the recent Whinging and complaining from Leeds is giving us quite a bit of light relief also!


As earlier poster says, Why has Gary taken until now to decide that Wrestling techniques are ruining the game?
Why, if it is a thinly veiled attack at Bluey, did he employ him?
Why did he extend his contract?
Why did he not bring up this concern of his earlier when his own team were sitting pretty as Champions?

If he had taken a nice little Moral Stance earlier, got rid of Bluey, and mentioned he wanted so called wrestling (We call it tackling in Wigan, we don't play Tag or tick & pass) techniques etc out of the game he amy have retained a bit of credence.

As it is it sounds like what it is, Cry Baby, Dummy Spitting, Whinging waffle!

You may or not believe this, but halfway through last season I posted that the single most impressive thing I'd seen regarding Wigan last year was that in spite of lots of issues regarding criticism from coaches/administrators etc they'd said Nothing! And came out with a lot of credit for that.

Seems like Leeds want to go a different way? That's up to them, good luck to em!

End of the day only 1 thing matters, Winners are grinners - Losers can make their own arrangements!

Yeah, that kind of proves the point. I find it hilarious that some of them are still dining out on the 70-0 thing. It's no more relevant now than our 69-12 tonking of them in the Premiership Final in 1995. Now THAT was pi22-taking exercise.

If Leeds do the build in the off-season it'll be the quickest stadium redevelopment in the history of construction. There's a host of other costs associated with any of these projects that will be a call on Leeds revenue resources, including financial, legal and project management expertise, along with the affect on to-day-to operations. Anybody who thinks a building project of the scale proposed won't affect revenue in a number of different ways is naive in the extreme. That's before the impact of public sector cuts might have on the implications on the grants for capital costs.

I don't know why you keep using the fact McDermott is not from overseas as some kind of comfort blanket. My assessment of McDermott is based on his SL coaching performance so far, not his nationality - underwhelming would be my description.

The fact of how Leeds youngster have done over the past few seasons against their peers is the best benchmark - again the word underwhelming springs to mind.

Leeds have beaten us in 4 super league play-off games.

2004
2007
2008
2010

First 3 final eliminator. 4th one is Maguires freak injury caused by the Wigan team.

Apparantly 2010 was a freak year and all results from said season should be removed from the record books...



(or I just used the stats from 2009 and forgot to add the play off result)

Yes I do but these stack up a little better.

semi Final play off v Leeds Home Won 74-06 (Offiah 10 tries)
Challenge Cup Final v Leeds Wembley Won 26-16
Challenge Cup Final v Leeds Wembley Won 30-10
Play Off Trophy Final v Leeds MUFC Won 69-12

Sorry meant the end of the 70's.
Right through the end of the 90's.

Why would the day to day operation of the club be affected by the rebuilding of southstand, it is nowhere near the offices or shops, which are based at the other side? Why would project Management, legal and financial expertise affect revenue? Im pretty sure that Paul Caddick with his near half a billion pound construction empire wont be struggling for project management expertise for a building project of this size.

As i said, the capital costs are ring-fenced as from new revenue streams and grants (the RFU rather than the public sector) which are being put in place purely to raise the funds for it.

Ahh, yes, judging him on his work with the cheapest squad in the league. Thats obviously a good indicator.

you mean how the likes of Watkins, Clarkson, Burgess, McShane, Ambler, Pitts, have played first team and won GFs, LSS, and appeared in CC finals rather than winning pointless youth trophies?

And just to confirm my "naive" comment. It has nothing to do with where the construction is, it's to do with the non-capital costs associated with it that the club will have to pick-up, aside from the loss due to reduced attendances.

Even the Quins fans were underwhelmed by McDermott and seemed to be happy to get rid, and they are one of the most grounded set of supporters in terms of expectations. I'm sure you'll be able to show us the fact that Quins have the cheapest squad in the league. Plenty of other coaches have done better with similar squads.

Is that the likes of BJB, Watkins, Clarkson, Burgess, McShane, Ambler, Pitts etc who got tonked by Fev? Or the likes of BJB, Watkins, Clarkson, Burgess, McShane, Ambler, Pitts etc who haven't shown anything against their peers over the last few years? Just because some are first team regulars doesn't mean they are anywhere near as good as previous players through the Leeds ranks - hence my original point.

And thank you for confirming you actually have no idea regarding the rebuild, and are simply wildly, desperately speculating. Maybe you could give us some examples of these non-capital costs and i can happily tell you why they wont apply. Then maybe you can explain why you expect a reduction in attendances and i can tell you why that is wrong.

Well we will see wont we.

yes, the fact they are first team regulars in a team which has won a LSS, GF and got to a CC final and final eliminator in the past two years, some have won 3 GFs by the age of 24, definitely doesnt mean they are better than players who have less first team experience in less successful squads after all, some of Wigans reserves won some youth competitions.

You'd better tell Hetherington about all this money you've got in grants which won't effect Leeds finances - he obviously doesn't know about it.

We'd better add interest payments to the list. Looks like I know considerably more than you.






So you haven't got any proof about Quins then - thanks for clearing that up.



Yes because most of them really are first team regulars aren't they? Do you want to post how many games they've played, or which one played in the GF?
If they can't even beat their peers at the same level, it doesn't hold much hope for Leeds when they come to rely on them in the future, rather than being bit part players

Obsessed.

Blah, blah, look who's on our board etc. etc.

Well done.

I agree - why do you need TWO threads about this on Substandard?

No, you simply proved the development wouldnt be paid for up front. Well done on that. Im not sure who said it would be paid for up front or who you think you have proved this to, but well done all the same

No, it looks like you misunderstood something then took a quote from August, then used it as evidence of something completely different, to try and distract everyone from the fact you have wildly and desperately speculated that there will be random non-capital costs (which you cannot name) then pretended that because the development hasnt been paid up front (which no-one else mentioned) proves something.

I must admit, it was a surprising turn of events, i simply expected you to carry one talking about something you have no idea about, making vague and pointless claims. But to start and finish a whole new argument all on your own was, as i say, surprising.

proof that Brian McDermott should have done more or less than he did at quins. No. I dont, Surprisingly i cannot prove a vague qualitative statement. Who would have thunk it.


Burgess played 15, Watkins 6 of the first 7 before suffering a season ending injury, Clarkson 13, McShane 13, Ambler 9 Pitts 9, BJB 17 (for quins) so not too bad

Nice attempt at fog knitting (bit of a speciality of yours when in trouble isn't it) - unfortunately you've still not told us how a £10m project won't affect Leeds financially - my point all along. Want to try again - this time at least giving the illusion of answering the question. You could make millions telling companies how to undertake major building projects without it affecting them financially, especially when borrowing to fund it as well.



More fog knitting.
No you said Quins had the cheapest squad in SL - but when asked couldn't prove it.



So in terms of regulars for Leeds probably only really Burgess and now probably McShane (as cover for Buderus) and Clarkson (who I really rate). And the grand total who won a SL title is...............................(I'll let you answer that one).

Again not really the quality there compared to previous eras - again my point all along which you seem to ignore.

no, i didnt, I said the payment for the development would come from specific ring-fenced revenue streams and grants and not from the day to day funding of the club. You seem to have simply invented a new, different thing for you to try and distract everyone from the fact you are wildly and desperately speculating over something you know nothing about, i do wonder how long you will keep doing that.
nope, i cant find a question in this statement anywhere [iEven the Quins fans were underwhelmed by McDermott and seemed to be happy to get rid, and they are one of the most grounded set of supporters in terms of expectations. I'm sure you'll be able to show us the fact that Quins have the cheapest squad in the league. Plenty of other coaches have done better with similar squads.[/i It seems i didnt answer the question, because strangely you didnt ask one, then pretended you had.

depends on what asinine definition you decide counts as 'winning and SL title' which im sure will change when the facts become apparent and you have to resume the standard Wigan defence
other than they have done pretty well to be honest, and have been claiming plenty of experience in a very successful side. Im not sure what else you would want from the generation coming through at the moment. Surely you cant be naive enough to think the youth comps matter can you?

I'm nearly wetting myself with the excitement of Andy telling us all about these non capital costs!

You are going to tell us Andy?

Don't be a tease!

The prospect of us returning to power has turned opposition supporters into gibbering wrecks.

Wigan rule and don't you forget it.

I haven't wildly speculated anything, simply said that building work on the scale proposed will effect the club financially. Calling something "ring-fenced" doesn't magically mean it won't effect the club financially either. And as you seem so good with evidence I'm sure you'll enlighten us with these new sudden revenue streams that will suddenly appear and not effect the finances?



So you still can't back up the fact that "Quins have the cheapest squad" which you used as an excuse for McDermott's record at Quins. Why say it if you don't have a clue if it's true or not? I'll ask again - do you have any proof for that or did you make it up?



It's a simple question to answer I don't know why you can't or won't answer it?

I've already told you Billy, it might help if you could read.

you seem to be misunderstanding, so many times, that i can only expect it to be deliberate. There are revenue streams, that Leeds are putting in place which are deliberately and specifically for the payment of the southstand development. The day-to-day financing of the clubs isnt affected by this. You for some reason are insisting that despite there being specific and dedicated revenue streams which will pay for the southstand which are outside the general revenue streams of the club, that the the clubs finances will somehow be affected. I've asked you before for an example of this but you for some reason you cannot give us an example of this, and it is only now that you have realised that your wild speculation and nonsense has been found out that you are question the existence of these revenue streams. I know there are many having had discussions with Rob Oates on how they would be implemented, as you said, you can earn money by advising companies on how to minimise, sometimes to the point of none-existence, the impact of capital expenditure on the day-to-day financing of the a business. Not all of that information is in the public domain however, so it would be wrong for me to release it on here just to prove you are talking nonsense about something you know nothing about and have done for a fair amount of time

However............

It is your assertion that the finances of Leeds Rhinos are moved from the playing side of things to the building of the stadium, it is up to you to prove it. Considering the little hissy fit you are throwing regarding my assertion that Quins have the cheapest playing squad in SL (and your strange insistence that i havent answered a question you hadnt asked) it would expose huge hypocrisy on your part if you couldnt provide any evidence that this was the case, especially as you have already promised us that you werent wildly speculating!

you wont ask it again, this is the first time you have asked it, and only now to try and save face after your ridiculous speculation and nonsense. However, I simply thought it commonly known that this was the case, obviously, and im very well prepared to admit, there is no evidence in the public domain to say this was the case.


how many played in Leeds LSS and GF winning season in 2009? 5.

Nope, I've had a look and still can't see anything. Perhaps you could highlight the figures and quote the relevant bit.

I'd be much obliged as I'm going cross eyed here!

so are so you saying Leeds Rhinos arent going to pay for the work? If so I now get you, if not then thats the point hes getting at. IF it cost you money it hits your bottom line. It may be accounted for and a budget set but it still hits the bottom line.