Lower?

I'm an optimistic person!

And I'm another one.
Lets look at what Noble did in 2006. Apart from having to sort out the mess that he inherited from Millward, he set up the new training camp at Orrell.
He told Maurice what was required and the whole Orrell social club was transformed into "the best training facilities" of any RL club (a fact often commented on by our Aussie overseas signings)

=#FF4000Investment in youth.
From 2002 to 2006 Wigans senior academy had won ONE Grand Final.

From 2007 - 2010 Wigan have won three and on the occasion they did not win it they finished top of their league.

As with all things it's not one man but a team effort and Brian Noble should be remembered as a very big part of the Wigan resurgence by putting the correct foundations in place for what is to come.

Agreed.

This is fun! I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one, though!

I accept that Nobby had a part to play, especialy in 2006, no arguments there (although anyone would have been an improvement over Millward!).
My point is that I feel, although perhaps he put some foundations in place, he failed to build on them at the time.

It can't be denied that most of our young players were held back, at least as far as first team opportunities go. It was well documented that he would never drop his senior players, except when forced to (which is one of the things Madge is especially praised for).
The likes of Sam & Joel Tomkins, Goulding, Mossop, Flanagan never let us down when they played, but were always dropped when their more senior counterparts were available.
It is simply impossible to envisage Nobby voluntarily dropping players like Feca, Roberts, Phelps, Bailey, Gleeson in favour of the youngsters, yet a large part of this season's success is down to exactly that tactic.



A part, certainly, but not "a very big part", IMO.

[uGeoff, You are Just Wrong![/u

Geoff,
Do you remember 2003 - 2006 when we went with youth. I like many believed it would be the renaissance of the team. However it turned out to be just the opposite.
The likes of Brown, Aspinwall, Tickle, O'Loughlin, Wild, Robinson, Briscoe and Hodgson were not poor players, but putting them all in together almost ruined the club.

Noble HAD to go with experience.

Sadly the experienced players at the club were the likes of Higham, Moran and Vaealiki who were not good enough to help bring the youngsters through.

As you said "we'll probably have to agree to disagree" and there's nothing wrong in that, even if you are wrong.

Bringing them in all together is wrong, of course - but some could have been brought in earlier, to give them game time before it was forced on us. It's not even as if the "senior" players were any better than the youngsters - indeed many of them were eventually (though belatedly) shown the door.
It's still beyond me why he stuck with the likes of Mathers, Colbon, Vaialiki & Smith for so long. They wouldn't have lasted one game with Madge.

nowhere we're still here, just to point out we have had a good couple of years as well!

Sorry, who are you again?


and Geoff, you're just plain wrong!

we've been too busy writing our letters of congratulations about your domination of the sport over the next ten years......well done its a great dynasty you have built...

I am a little dissapointed that you will win everything for the foreseable future but i'm also glad Saints and Bradford will continue to win nothing and Leeds tenure at the top is now just a distant memory.....

And hopefully the England team will contain the Entire Wigan Squad and we can push the Aussies really close in the future four nations

what a bonus your domination is for the sport I think I speak for the rest of Rugby League all over the world when I say Wigan Rugby League thank you

well done on not being presumptuous, arrogant, or ever so slightly pompous,

Its not arrogant or pompus, its a statement of fact that this board has been a wire free board for the last week or two.

Had we lost the final, would it have been the same?

there are three certainties in Life.

Death, taxes and the predictability of wire fans.

Hmm No-one at Wigan, no fans, coaches, players or chairman has claimed Wigan will dominate the sport over the next 10 years, no-one at the beginning of 2010 even expected us to win this year.

However i do remember a certain Wire nobody (think his name was michael cooper) stating that Warrington were going to win everything for the next decade and that no other club would come close.

So Michael, Wheres your 2010 Super League Ring? Your League Leaders Trophy? I expect you'll be winning the World Club Challenge in 2011 also.

Good Luck with that

and this is my point proved..."you know he didnt say Wire were going to win everything for the next decade but you still feel the need to post nonsense

I think it was more along the lines of "Warrington have a bright future and should be competing for honours more than they have done in recent years" which considering we then went and won another trophy he was proved right to some degree.
and I find it strange that you call a Local hometown born and bred player who has played in a Wembley winning team a nobody......
youve all been on the Wire forum positively crowing over your youths when they won the touch rugby competition thing....

what cooper said is nothing different to what Maguire has said about building a Wigan dynasty except cooper had more than one years experience in superleague.

still not arrogant or pompous....??

Obviously I cant remember Coopers exact quote because it was about a year ago but it was something along those lines (what I said) because I remember someone writing a list of all the trophys he expected Warrington to win, going off what he said.

As for 'what Maguire has sai about building a Wigan dynasty' why dont you watch [url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_league/super_league/9055225.stmThe video[/url and you will see he says [i[unothing[/u[/i of the sort.

So no, still not arrogant or pompous.

Whenever I hear about these training facilities at Orrell being 'World Class' I instantly think back to Ivan Drago's futuristic training equipment and methods....and look where that got him!


Maybe that's why Madge has them 'doing it the old way' up Haigh Hall, running through snow / pulling rocks on sleds....etc.

Spot bloody on .

Coach want's good facilities - shock horror. They brought him no success though. Facilities he may have had but he didn't know how to use them to get the best out of his team.



You do the coaches such as Wane a great disservice by putting those achievements at Nobles door more so that saying Noble had anything to do with this years success. In fact I can't believe anyone would even mention youth and Noble in the same post as a positive thing. Noble was terrible at giving youth its chance. I firmly believe if he were still in charge players would have left. Look at what Goulding has had to say on that matter. It took Rads and Wane to persuade him he would like being coached under Madge and more importantly that if he worked hard he would get his chance - something he clearly felt was not the case under Noble.



A very big part in the Wigan resurgence? Give over. He was here for 3 1/2 seasons not a decade and he put the resurgence on hold for three seasons. After 2006 the team stagnated for three painful seasons. No progress was made at all. He lost his job for that reason. God knows why people think he was anything other than an average coach who had his flaws exposed by more modern coaches elsewhere. We are well rid.

Dave

You're right, Dave.

In 2006 we were almost relegated.
In 2007 we snuck into the playoffs and reached the semi finals of both comps
In 2008 we reached the playoff semi final
In 2009 we reached both semi finals

I'd say that is progress of some sort. He took us as far as he could, but to say we made no progress at all is a joke.

Some people have short memories Conroy.

It seems to me that some people seem to have a magnanimous (sp) view on things whilst others have a view somewhere on the lines of :-

We didn't win something, so everything was Bad.
We win something, So everything is Brilliant.

IMO, To try and Tar the memory of what someone did to try and Prove a Point (Which is partly valid there is no doubt) speak more IMO about the poster than it does about the Person were talking about.


What we were talking about the other night Geoff was that in some peoples opinion BN did not have the Infrastructure at hand (The mature enough players etc) to chop and change as much as some people would have liked, Noble did not have as much options behind him in 2007 as He left Madge end of 2009.
With regards to the players Madge used in 2010, They obviously weren't ready in 2007 (Due to age/Maturity) but the ones that were maturing Hansen/Prescott/Ashton/Goulding and then J Tomkins a touch later than that All got their chances.
Now I'm not daft enough to suggest that we weren't the Best coached team in the league etc but I do know that it is a fallicy (sp) that Noble didn't use his Youth, He may not have done it exactly right, but he did use them.
He was also there & Presided over the Youth at the club from mid 2006 till 2009, If he was that bad in that time at monitoring/providing process for these players to come through, then how come suddenly, Mid 2009, we had a group of Youngsters, Pretty much who all wanted to stay at the club, that were just about to thrust their way into contention for 1st team places?
And then to suggest that BN had Nothing to Do with this is unbelievable! He may not have been the Whole answer, but he was certainl "Part" of it.

I suppose the Accelarator squad was nothing to do with BN?
I suppose that 90% of the Juniors (Players say 18/20) that were of that age were they wanted a chance between 2007/2009 staying at the club as opposed to probably 40/50% under Maurice and previous coaches (And administration) has Nothing to do with BN?
I suppose that the Training facilities put in place by the club were designed by the Tea Lady etc?

Top line for Me

We were a shambles of a club mid 2005/2006, We had been going backwards for 2/3 years as a club. We had a very average Youth system that hadn't produced a Great deal of 1st team material or won much for a couple of years and what it did, we had wasted/lost for various many reasons.

Suddenly, end of 2009, we're IMO the 3rd placed club in the League in many ways, probably best in many ways (Youth) and maybe lower in others (I'll let you guys decide which).
But most importantly we were suddnely a place that Other clubs were starting to take notice of, other players were tempted to join and a place were the youth being developed suddenly wanted to stay at.

Could he have done it Better? IMO of course he could!
Could he have done it a whole lot worse? Again undoubtably!

As for the Mathers/Vaeliki etc argument, You have heard of "Contracts" haven't you?
Some people will say "Maurice would have just got rid" and IMO that's part of the Quick natured solutions thinking that we had that got us in this mess in the 1st place!

PS
I'm guessing 5 for this post!

are you taking the p!ss.........or been on the p!ss.

NOBLE SAVED US............END OF.

Was that a really really long list...or was it a list of two.......

No, It was a long list.