Spot on. There are some big decisions to be made with the likes of Walmsley and Lomax too. I personally think Walmsley is only another big injury away from retiring. Hurell won't be there next season I'd imagine but Percival is injury prone and getting on in age too.

I'd take that, really rate Davies.

For years we've struggled to bring some top quality backs through the system, we always seemed to produce better forwards. Welsby and Dodd are notable exceptions of late and Grace to a lesser extent. The likes of Makinson, Percival and Lomax came through a long time ago

By all accounts there are 4-5 in the system who Rush describes as "game changers" not just lads who will have a SL career but ones who will play for Saints and make a difference. I am not an expert on our Academy but I know for example that Vaughan (England Academy captain) will definitely come through.

All depends on their development which is why I think Blake is an astute signing. Yes he has weaknesses but he's not coming up against Farnworth, Crichton, Mitchell every week in the SL. He can play wing too and has something to prove if he wants another NRL club given he has only signed a one year deal. He also has something we badly lack- genuine pace.

The extra 12 months also allows us to see how some of the centres/wingers develop. 12 months can be a long time in RL.

I also think Ritson will be much better this season. I think its taken him that first season to come to terms with a full-time environment and he was on a steep learning curve.

Would be a good move for both Saints and Catalans. One of superleagues all time best but his powers are declining.

Catalans would get a leader from a winning system similar to McIlorum
And Tomkins.

No he never haha what did you say to warrant that

An update from Matt Shaw has him in talks with HKR. They're going all out to try and bring the full Wigan outside backline from 2017 together.

i get what you are saying about production line. i think we've had a similar spell post Tomkins, Charnley, Burgess, etc where we've produced far more forwards (mainly back row too) than quality backs.

my mate who i was chatting to yesterday was unsure re academy too. He lost interest a few years back due to something that happened at Saints, but still keeps an interest in 1st team

He also commented re Blake, saying that whilst not top drawer, should be an astute signing for this year, and perhaps an extension thereafter

He rated Ritson more highly than i did, but that often comes from not seeing a player week in week out and forming an opinion in that way, but i do agree he's in a top setup to get the best out of a player if they are going to make it, and i dont think he'll be costing you a fortune on the cap either

A 33 year old Makinson would be daft not to take on a couple of years down in the South of France. A new environment at a club still pushing for honours which will set him up nice for retirement. Its not like going over to Australia, you're literally a 90 minute flight away from family and friends.

Did you see the Sam Tomkins interview last year from his home in France, stunning. I can't see him moving back to the UK for some time. Why would you? what a life!!

His house on Lee's Lane before he went to France was none too shabby either but give me the south of France any day

Our record in bringing through top quality backs in the last few years isn’t the best. The club is getting the rewards if being patient with Harry Smith but there hasn’t been much else. Hopefully Eckersley, Douglas and Farrimond can be the ones that turn that tide.

On the flip side we’ve had forwards coming out of our ears. I remember going to one of the last London Skolar pre season games and the young Wigan pack was stacked, with guys like Byrne, Havard, Shorrocks, Smithies, McDonnell, Rushton, Partington etc turning out.

I think it’s indicative of the British game in general. We’ve always had quality forwards but lack real quality backs at times particularly centres.

We’ve matched Australia in the pack numerous times but it’s the backs where they’ve had the upper hand on us.

True enough. I suppose when you look at our very best backs over the last couple of decades, they’d still fall short of guys like Inglis, Slater, Mitchell, Tedesco etc. If you’re a freakish athlete in this country you’re likely to follow they money and look toward football or other sports and that limits the amount of top quality backs we bring through. In fairness I do think we’re looking as strong as we’ve done in a long while in the outside backs. Guys like Farnworth and Dom Young are those sort of big, quick, powerful athletes we don’t produce very often (with the NRL obviously helping to round them off).

Agreed. Farnworth and Young are bucking the trend.

So did Williams.

Makinson? Really?

Good player but surely not?

He's certainly in the conversation where wingers are concerned.

It comes down to how highly you value wingers.

I think not too long ago they were regarded as simply finishers.

They obviously brought something to the table but there influence was generally at the attacking end of the spectrum.

I think Jerry, Hall and TM probably lead the way in changing that in SL along with their coaches which has seen them being crucial to exit sets but also being expected to do the finishing too.

I think wingers stock has risen significantly in regards their role in the team in the last decade, and rightly so.

i'd go back to Charnley and Richards at Wigan when MM 1st came. Very rarely did Sam run the ball in but offload to one of the wingers, who took in 1st and then 2nd balls, with George Carmont / Martin Gleeson also taking in early drives (add in Gelling too). We've used our backs for a long time for exit sets, its just we were very effective last year compared to recent seasons

In terms of a try’s per game ratio, guys like Makinson and Hall trail well behind a guy like Charnley but both are far better all round players IMO (or they were in Halls case) and for the reasons pointed out above. In terms of all time Superleague wingers, I’d probably have Makinson towards the lower end of a top 10 but he’d definitely be in that conversation. Makinson and Hall are two guys who reserved their best for England as well, so that helps their reputations.

Golden boot winner.

He’s 33 and still the best winger in SL

Which is why he always finishes top of the try scorers list.


Oh! Wait a minute...

What is your hypothesis based on?

The fact that Makinson plays for St. Helens.

It’s between Makinson and Ritson for me.

Longer than you think. I remember chatting about Carney and Dallas and discussing how much yardage work they do and how they started the sets for us. That’s probably 20 years ago.