Nice reply. If you can't see how bad Tomkins is atm you really shouldn't be calling anyone a moron unless you're standing in front of a mirror. On this form he's miles from an England call up and barely worth a Wigan jumper. I really hope he's carrying an injury because if he thinks what he is offering up now is good enough for such a high earner he is deluded.

I think we can all see how poor his form is however singling him out isn't going to help is it? And he's hardly all over the place defensively. In fact defensively we are pretty much sound (barring a few errors). Nearly every player is in garbage form, especially senior players. Lockers has had his worst season probably ever, Smith can't pass accurately or make a break and we have a set of forwards who go sideways more then forwards and barely ever put their hand up to carry on our own half. I won't even begin to talk about any of them making even a half break (Bateman excluded) or running off the ball.

Hes appalling this season. Its like a different player from when he left, he looks like he cant be bothered - i honestly dont think we'd miss him if he wasnt playing, hes that absent. Shame as he used to be an incredible attacking threat. I agree with the other posters, if hes not fit dont play him.

Top player before he went to Aus but for whatever reason it didn't happen for him. He then comes back and finds that his position of Wigan Wonderkid being taken by Bateman. Bateman then picks up disciplinary ban through circumstances outside rugby. As a genuine question would you have preferred Sam T get the ban instead?

He'll be completely different next season. quite obviously not fully fit. hence why he surrenders every tackle and wont take the line on. He'll be back no doubt.

I'm not convinced. I'd love to agree that "he'll be fine next season when he's fully fit", but somehow I don't expect it. His performances of late remind of his dog days with the Warriors in the NRL, handing off the ball as soon as possible.

My fear is he'll be just the same, and the excuse will be, he's *still* not fully fit.

He has definitely lost a lot of things from his game. His arm trapping at the play the ball isn't even as good as it was pre-NRL

IMO Sam is still a top quality player. To play his best game he needs the team to create space for him, they are not doing that this season which is why we are not seeing what he can do. It's a team game and the team has not performed for most of the season.

Is Tomkins Wigan's marque player? If so it shows how the concept can bite you in the backside.

The truth hurts. He's spot on.

Stat wise he is. At present he's a shadow of his former self.

My 2p as a non-Wigan follower is that you are never going to get the old Tomkins back. Those saying "we'll see when he's fully fit" are ignoring the fact that he hasn't really been "fully" fit for YEARS - since before he went to the NRL. And the edge of pace he's lost he's never going to get back.

But his defence has actually improved from being in the NRL and he's still a really smart player in terms of reading the game in traffic, has an excellent range of passing, decent kicking game, enough pace to finish off if not start a break etc. In fact he has exactly the right the skill set for a halfback. He might not be the superstar he looked like being a while ago, but he'd be an upgrade on Matty Smith, and even as a non-Wigan fan I wish you'd play Williams and Tomkins together at 6 and 7 for England's sake. I suppose having Leuluai and McIlorum back to guarddog them in the defensive line will help, but is there any reason why not?

He played better at half back yesterday than his performance at 1. Clearly because he can get his hands on the ball more & has a good passing game. His speed and acceleration seem to be non apparent at the moment and that's what his old game relied on.

Perhaps if we utilised him better and realised he's no longer physically equipped to play a modern day FB role then he'd do better.

To get on his back so much after 3/4 poor games is pretty standard of some Wigan fans though. Wouldn't expect anything else

Stats wise we are the worst team in the league.

Do we have the worst squad in the league?

I only listened to, and didn't watch last night's game (thank God, so it seems!), but it sounded like Sam was effectively playing in the halves most of the time anyway, and clearly didn't pull up any trees? I was thinking about the kicking game in particular.
BTW when was the last time we kicked a 40/20?

Long kicking game wasn't too bad I didn't think. And yes Tomkins was taking first receiver a lot of the time even when Williams was on the field basically playing 6.

However our attacking kicks are utter shoite. We had Charnley and Gelling one one side up against Marsh who is a centre that's barely 6ft and we didn't put one bomb up that way. Don't even get me started on repeat sets through attacking kicks. I think we managed one, we subsequently knocked on straight from the drop out.

I think he is done as one of the best players in Super League unfortunately. His game was reliant on acceleration and agility, the injuries have robbed him of both.

Its a shame, especially considering how much of the cap he is taking up at Wigan.

I just don't believe this idea that a pre season will give him back that extra pace or ability to break the line.

He will have to move into the halves but he doesn't have a great kicking game, and with his attacking side limited I not sure he will ever justify his contract or a position in Wigans team even.

I think a little too early to write him off.

Coming back from a serious knee injury takes a long time.

I also think he's playing with another injury which means he's not even attempting to stretch himself. His first few games back he was taking the line on but now is not even attempting, just getting rid of the ball.

I think he will benefit from a pre season and gaining confidence I his knee. He's playing well within himself at the moment and although he's not going to come back in the form when he left, I think he will be far better next season.

Has anyone ever thought that he may have been crocked permanently when he left New Zealand Warriors and that Wigan may have been conned by the Warriors in paying a supposedly big fee to get him back.
He was first injured in early March 2015 in the NRL, he made numerous attempts to play again but each time he only lasted a match or two, when he signed on again for Wigan it was supposedly said that all he needed was full rest and he would be fine.
He was even in the squad last year for the Autumn Internationals (he did not play a minute) it was only then that Wigan got an opinion in the UK and it was decided he needed a major operation on his knee. This was carried out in November and it was another 4 months before he could come back.
It doesn't really sound like an injury that could be cured by rest does it ?, as I say I think NZW conned Wigan into taking him back without examining all the circumstances surrounding his injury. Just my thoughts

I don't suppose we'll ever know for sure, but it's been my worry, too, that that might be a possibility, to say the least.

At least the 'big fee' we paid was a lot less than we sold him for!

I hope that we havn't been conned by NZ Warriors and that Sam has a great 2017 season

But If we have been conned then we have lost the "Big transfer fee" we paid to get Sam back, That would be sheer negligence from our club as that money could have been utilised to bring in a marquee signing

Did Sam actually pass a medical prior to us re signing him?

If he didn't, the club have been extremely naive to say the least. As has been said, he was running the line quite well in his first few games back after his injury. Since then, he seems to be holding back and playing well within his capabilities.

To me, there are three possibilities. Firstly, he's being over cautious but with rest and a good pre season, he'll be back to something like next year. Secondly, he's carrying a knock but, again, he'll be much improved come next February. Thirdly, he's suffered from the injury and this is as good as it will get.

It all seems a little strange. I sincerely hope it's possibilities one, and/or two. If it's three, we've been duped and are going to appear rather stupid.

I thought I read or heard that his injury had been misdiagnosed in NZ?
I just hope he can make something near to a full recovery.

My fear with Tomkins which I stated before he'd played this year, was that he was coming back into a much worse team than he left. He had players to act as a foil. It's too easy to target him currently as very few players in our team offer any genuine threat. What is happening with is what I hoped wouldn't, he's targeted and nullified, because it's easy as the rest of the team offer nothing to occupy defenders.

How can England have a guy at full back who can't take in the first carry from a kick down field? He constantly looks for one of his wingers to take the ball from him, which buys the defence another 10 metres. I think his injury is severely hampering his performance and he looks a very frustrated player because of it. Shaul or Lomax should be at 1 for England before Tomkins on this seasons form.

I was told at the start of the year that his injury was that bad he'd be lucky to play again, something about having pioneering surgery to repair/replace damaged ligaments, he had nothing left. With such a serious condition it's a miracle he's back on the field, but would explain the drop in his performances, the change in his tactics, the frustration and constant moaning at referees, and his loss of pace and agility. If that is the case, he's not likely to get those back with one pre season. We have seen with Walsh and Lomax what it takes to come back from horrendous injuries, Walsh especially was a shadow of the player he was before for the best part of a season and a half.