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| Quote ="NickyKiss"It’s frustrating the international game granted but it’s not dead for any English players. Hopefully Samoa get over here in 2024 (but Smith will be here next year anyway so that’s irrelevant to his decision) but then players have an Ashes tour and a World Cup to aim for and I can pretty much guarantee every single English player will be desperate to be part of those events.
I don’t think playing for a bottom of the table NRL side overly impacts your chances mind, as long as you’re going ok yourself.'"
Yeah was pretty average most of last year and was in a terrible team but still got the nod ahead of Faz who had a good year in a champion team |
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| Quote ="jonh"I think he would be very poorly advised to go before 2026/7.
I don’t see him having the physicality at the moment to cope with the NRL.
His ability to control and read the game is certainly good enough now but I think a few more years would work best for him.
The physical side of his game has improved massively but it’s still a long way off NRL standards yet in my opinion.'"
Completely agree. |
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Quote ="MadDogg"The third marquee player has to be federation trained (i.e. trained by a member club of the European Federation) but not necessarily home grown (i.e. developed through the club's own academy).'"
there is a distinction though in the wording and appropriate costs to the cap, but it doesnt state you can only have or have to have, 1 of each, other than you have to have a minimum of 1 Federation trained
Club Trained Marquee player = £50k
Federation Trained = £100k
Non Federation Trained = £150k
https://www.rugby-league.com/article/61 ... lculations.
hence my example and explanation of why Thompson cannot be club trained, he would be Federation trained player
Further confirmation below (its an out of date article given Smithies still at Wigan  )
First off, let's define what all the different trained type of players are. A club-trained player is someone who has been trained and developed at the club they are currently at. Examples would be Harry Newman at Leeds Rhinos, James Roby at St Helens and Morgan Smithies at Wigan Warriors.
A federation trained player would be someone who wasn't produced by the club they are but was trained by a club affiliated to the RLEF (Rugby League European Federation). George Williams is as an example of this as he was trained by Wigan but is at Warrington, so he is classed as a federation trained player.
Finally, a non-federation trained player is someone who wasn't developed or trained by an RLEF affiliated clubs. Basically, if they spent their junior career in Australia, New Zealand or the Pacific Islands. So Bevan French, Wigan's marquee player, is a non-federation trained player.
https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/sport/ru ... r-27049111 |
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Quote ="MadDogg"The third marquee player has to be federation trained (i.e. trained by a member club of the European Federation) but not necessarily home grown (i.e. developed through the club's own academy).'"
there is a distinction though in the wording and appropriate costs to the cap, but it doesnt state you can only have or have to have, 1 of each, other than you have to have a minimum of 1 Federation trained
Club Trained Marquee player = £50k
Federation Trained = £100k
Non Federation Trained = £150k
https://www.rugby-league.com/article/61 ... lculations.
hence my example and explanation of why Thompson cannot be club trained, he would be Federation trained player
Further confirmation below (its an out of date article given Smithies still at Wigan )
First off, let's define what all the different trained type of players are. A club-trained player is someone who has been trained and developed at the club they are currently at. Examples would be Harry Newman at Leeds Rhinos, James Roby at St Helens and Morgan Smithies at Wigan Warriors.
A federation trained player would be someone who wasn't produced by the club they are but was trained by a club affiliated to the RLEF (Rugby League European Federation). George Williams is as an example of this as he was trained by Wigan but is at Warrington, so he is classed as a federation trained player.
Finally, a non-federation trained player is someone who wasn't developed or trained by an RLEF affiliated clubs. Basically, if they spent their junior career in Australia, New Zealand or the Pacific Islands. So Bevan French, Wigan's marquee player, is a non-federation trained player.
https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/sport/ru ... r-27049111 | |
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| Quote ="MattyB"https://www.wigantoday.net/sport/rugby-league/ramon-silva-departs-wigan-warriors-for-championship-move-4425334?fbclid=IwAR2pwCNXib5OmjvNIyZW3_JYPSXjbXV3lG25tj-g-USpij47xwWZiwgHm9M
Not a shock this one but it confirms another one off the books. It was a weird one this, as if he was only signed on to keep KPP company when moving up from London.'"
Not SL standard let alone a plsyer who would command a place at a team hoping to be at the top end of the table.
Good luck to him at Barrow. |
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| Quote ="jonh"I think he would be very poorly advised to go before 2026/7.
I don’t see him having the physicality at the moment to cope with the NRL.
His ability to control and read the game is certainly good enough now but I think a few more years would work best for him.
The physical side of his game has improved massively but it’s still a long way off NRL standards yet in my opinion.'"
He's almost 24 now and 5'10 at best, he's fine defensively and he's never going to break tackles. What more physicality are you expecting from him at this stage? If he's not ready right now (and I'd dispute that) he certainly will be in another 12 months.
He's not particularly well paid and especially not now considering the year he's just had. Lifestyle benefits are endless and he's moving to a better competition and instantly trebling his money in a career which he can only expect to have another 10 good years. Not to mention every SL club with cap space would bend over backwards to have him sign if it didn't immediately work out. He would be very poorly advised if he didn't go.
Imagine if injury-prone Thompson being on marquee money for four years prevents Smith from signing a longer improved deal. Absolute madness. |
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| Quote ="SFW"He's almost 24 now and 5'10 at best, he's fine defensively and he's never going to break tackles. What more physicality are you expecting from him at this stage? If he's not ready right now (and I'd dispute that) he certainly will be in another 12 months.
He's not particularly well paid and especially not now considering the year he's just had. Lifestyle benefits are endless and he's moving to a better competition and instantly trebling his money in a career which he can only expect to have another 10 good years. Not to mention every SL club with cap space would bend over backwards to have him sign if it didn't immediately work out. He would be very poorly advised if he didn't go.
Imagine if injury-prone Thompson being on marquee money for four years prevents Smith from signing a longer improved deal. Absolute madness.'"
i think in terms of physicality we are generally referring to defensively where he has been targetted previously. However, he has improved massively over the last 12 months and certainly wasnt shirking the defensive side of things v Tonga, where he couldnt have really gotten a bigger / more physical team running at him
in terms of Marquee, Smith and Thompson would fall into different categories ie club trained v federation trained. So both could be marquee, and Smith would only cost us £50k on the cap and Thompson £100k |
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| Quote ="SFW"He's almost 24 now and 5'10 at best, he's fine defensively and he's never going to break tackles. What more physicality are you expecting from him at this stage? If he's not ready right now (and I'd dispute that) he certainly will be in another 12 months.
He's not particularly well paid and especially not now considering the year he's just had. Lifestyle benefits are endless and he's moving to a better competition and instantly trebling his money in a career which he can only expect to have another 10 good years. Not to mention every SL club with cap space would bend over backwards to have him sign if it didn't immediately work out. He would be very poorly advised if he didn't go.
Imagine if injury-prone Thompson being on marquee money for four years prevents Smith from signing a longer improved deal. Absolute madness.'"
I dispute the fact he is 5’10” I’m 5’8” and was chatting to him not too long ago and he certainly didn’t seem taller than me.
In regard his physicality it is an area in which he has improved in but I think he would need more than another year to improve in this area.
It was interesting after the World Cup when they asked Luke Keary about the main differences between NRL & SL players. He stated that players like Byrne were classed as larger athletic props, but in the NRL he would be a smaller second row.
It’s a massive step up in terms of physicality and he would be faced with that challenge week in week out by every team he came up against.
Another 2/3 years in the gym and working on his technique for me would be best for his career. He could still going to have a 5 year NRL career.
I fear if he has ambitions of NRL and goes over in 2025 his career may be much shorter lived than that.
Hopefully I hope he stays for the duration of his career though and agree, he is more worthy of a marquee stop than Thompson. |
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I love this “ Thompson being on £400k and being marquee” is talked about like a fact.
The £400k figure was his NRL salary, after a not so great NRL career and injuries, combined with age his salary will have come down significantly.
He’ll still be on good money and might be marquee but £400k is probably way off.
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He is marquee, and the only person I can see making reference to £400k is you.
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| Quote ="NSW"I love this “ Thompson being on £400k and being marquee” is talked about like a fact.
The £400k figure was his NRL salary, after a not so great NRL career and injuries, combined with age his salary will have come down significantly.
He’ll still be on good money and might be marquee but £400k is probably way off.'"
Its not way off at all. Wigan's offer blew NRL clubs out of the water. He is earning a fortune, its without doubt a risk given his salary but if does stay fit he will be outstanding.
I can see Smith going in the next two years with Farrimond taking his place. There is an easy succession plan in place for Wigan with Farrimond coming through who as I've said before is a once in a generation talent. |
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| Quote ="jonh"I dispute the fact he is 5’10” I’m 5’8” and was chatting to him not too long ago and he certainly didn’t seem taller than me.
In regard his physicality it is an area in which he has improved in but I think he would need more than another year to improve in this area.
It was interesting after the World Cup when they asked Luke Keary about the main differences between NRL & SL players. He stated that players like Byrne were classed as larger athletic props, but in the NRL he would be a smaller second row.
It’s a massive step up in terms of physicality and he would be faced with that challenge week in week out by every team he came up against.
Another 2/3 years in the gym and working on his technique for me would be best for his career. He could still going to have a 5 year NRL career.
I fear if he has ambitions of NRL and goes over in 2025 his career may be much shorter lived than that.
Hopefully I hope he stays for the duration of his career though and agree, he is more worthy of a marquee stop than Thompson.'"
Smith will be 25 by the time the 2025 NRL season starts. Why would he delay the prospect of a massive pay rise for another 2/3 years?
Makes very little sense to me, if he wants to go he'd be mad not to go for 2025 IMO.
A real shame though, it's getting harder and harder to keep top players in the game (and HS has certainly proven this year he is well and truly in that bracket). Hopefully Wigan can make a marquee deal work. |
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I think Wigan fans will have to accept the high likelihood that 2024 will be the last year we have Smith, Field and French as the spine of our team. Because 1) they are all off contract at the end of 2024, 2) they will all have NRL interest and 3) there are only three marquee spots and we decided to use one on Thompson.
The one thing I hope hasn't happened is that Wigan have inadvertently snookered themselves by offering Thompson the marquee deal he has. As I said on a previous post, Smith's rise has been relatively quick (primarily over the 2nd half of 2023) so perhaps Wigan didn't view him as someone who could be in the marquee mix in their long term planning. The long term plan may have been Field, French and Thompson for marquee spots.
Alternatively, Wigan may already be aware that one of Field or French will move on thus opening up a spot.
Personally, I think if we start 2025 with two of Field, French and Smith then I'd be over the moon.
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It’s a big ask to expect Farrimond to step up and replace Smith so quickly but I’d rather have French and Field if it came to keeping 2 of the 3. Smith has obviously stepped up this back end of the season so he’s shown it can be done with the right players around him.
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| Quote ="MadDogg"I think Wigan fans will have to accept the high likelihood that 2024 will be the last year we have Smith, Field and French as the spine of our team. Because 1) they are all off contract at the end of 2024, 2) they will all have NRL interest and 3) there are only three marquee spots and we decided to use one on Thompson.
The one thing I hope hasn't happened is that Wigan have inadvertently snookered themselves by offering Thompson the marquee deal he has. As I said on a previous post, Smith's rise has been relatively quick (primarily over the 2nd half of 2023) so perhaps Wigan didn't view him as someone who could be in the marquee mix in their long term planning. The long term plan may have been Field, French and Thompson for marquee spots.
Alternatively, Wigan may already be aware that one of Field or French will move on thus opening up a spot.
Personally, I think if we start 2025 with two of Field, French and Smith then I'd be over the moon.'"
Maybe just me but I don't think Field will get much attention from the NRL. You'd certainly be happiest losing him out of the three you mention |
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Or I would be, can see that has already been disputed above!
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| Quote ="MadDogg"I think Wigan fans will have to accept the high likelihood that 2024 will be the last year we have Smith, Field and French as the spine of our team. Because 1) they are all off contract at the end of 2024, 2) they will all have NRL interest and 3) there are only three marquee spots and we decided to use one on Thompson.
The one thing I hope hasn't happened is that Wigan have inadvertently snookered themselves by offering Thompson the marquee deal he has. As I said on a previous post, Smith's rise has been relatively quick (primarily over the 2nd half of 2023) so perhaps Wigan didn't view him as someone who could be in the marquee mix in their long term planning. The long term plan may have been Field, French and Thompson for marquee spots.
Alternatively, Wigan may already be aware that one of Field or French will move on thus opening up a spot.
Personally, I think if we start 2025 with two of Field, French and Smith then I'd be over the moon.'"
It isn't possible to have those 3 as marquee. |
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| Quote ="nathan_rugby"It isn't possible to have those 3 as marquee.'"
It is according to the below press release on marquee players.
[iThe current two marquee player limit will increase to three, as long as at least one of the players is federation trained.
Non-federation trained marquee players will remain at £150,000, but federation-trained players will count as £100,000 and club-trained as £50,000.[/i |
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I see Owen Farrell has just announced he will not be available for selection for the Six Nations in 2024 as he wants to take a break from International rugby to protect his and his family's mental wellbeing. It says he will continue to play for Saracens but might this be paving the way for a change of scene?
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I think people get way to fixated on the marquee tag, having 3 players designated as marquee and then someone wanting a pay rise to then become a top 3 earner or having a bigger dispensation doesn’t mean the person he is replacing as a marquee player has to leave or one of the others do.. It could just potentially mean your squad is a little top heavy and squad depth could suffer but you could in theory have 4 players on 400k a year each and only 550k count towards the cap.
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| Quote ="CobraCraig"I think people get way to fixated on the marquee tag, having 3 players designated as marquee and then someone wanting a pay rise to then become a top 3 earner or having a bigger dispensation doesn’t mean the person he is replacing as a marquee player has to leave or one of the others do.. It could just potentially mean your squad is a little top heavy and squad depth could suffer but you could in theory have 4 players on 400k a year each and only 550k count towards the cap.'"
Yes, but given the increasing disparity in cap between NRL and SL (now around £4.8 million to £2.1 million with various exemptions) it becomes trickier. It probably is possible to accommodate one other player at a 'marquee level' salary without them occupying a marquee spot.
I wonder how open players are with each other about what they are earning - might be the best policy to keep it under wraps but word will no doubt spread. Always wondered about the potential for big disparities in salary within a squad to cause friction but I guess that happens in all sports. |
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| Quote ="MadDogg"Yes, but given the increasing disparity in cap between NRL and SL (now around £4.8 million to £2.1 million with various exemptions) it becomes trickier. It probably is possible to accommodate one other player at a 'marquee level' salary without them occupying a marquee spot.
I wonder how open players are with each other about what they are earning - might be the best policy to keep it under wraps but word will no doubt spread. Always wondered about the potential for big disparities in salary within a squad to cause friction but I guess that happens in all sports.'"
Yeah, that’s true but we have increased the number of marquee spots which counteracts that, pushing the cap up to say £2.5/3m dependant on how much the marquee players earn. Im just saying if Smith wants £3/400k a year it doesn’t mean we have to get rid of French or Field to pay him that. |
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| Quote ="CobraCraig"I think people get way to fixated on the marquee tag, having 3 players designated as marquee and then someone wanting a pay rise to then become a top 3 earner or having a bigger dispensation doesn’t mean the person he is replacing as a marquee player has to leave or one of the others do.. It could just potentially mean your squad is a little top heavy and squad depth could suffer but you could in theory have 4 players on 400k a year each and only 550k count towards the cap.'"
thats where the club accountants earn their money
if we use Smith, Thompson, French and Field for illustrative purposes and they are all on £400k salary
How we then use the marquee slots could save us £100k on the cap £800k v £700k, so whilst as fans we shouldnt worry about who is named marquee, the club do need to right on top of this to ensure we are utilising the benefit fully
In true RFL fashion though the number of each type of marquee isnt clear, other than they state at least 1 must be Federation trained i.e. you cant have 3 overseas non fed trained marquee. However, it doesnt say you cant have 3 club trained (that i can see), so (purely for illustration) if our top earners were Farrell, Smith and Smithies (prior to him leaving) and all 3 were on £300k, could we have benefitted from only paying £150k on the cap, instead of £900k |
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| Quote ="Dai Jones"I see Owen Farrell has just announced he will not be available for selection for the Six Nations in 2024 as he wants to take a break from International rugby to protect his and his family's mental wellbeing. It says he will continue to play for Saracens but might this be paving the way for a change of scene?'"
1. Farrell announcing he's withdrawing from international RU
2. Squad numbers still not announced for some reason even though new shirts are now on sale
3. Mike Danson takes over ownership of the club tomorrow
4............. 
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To me it feels like Farrell announcing that makes any rumoured move more unlikely. Why announce a break from internationals if you’re leaving the sport anyway?! An announcement on an exit would just put paid to any more internationals.
On the other hand, If it were to happen, I could see him playing out the club Union season and then coming here mid summer but I can’t see it.
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