And how many other wingers in the league Have?

My only criticism of budgie previously has been his workrate. But he could do things Manfred couldn't.
Its a refreshing place to be in to have multiple options in most positions.
Let's not write players off just yet

I think I’ve mentally just put Manfredi to one side in the hope that we get some good news at some point. He was unbelievable prior to his injury.

In regards to Burgess what I always felt set him apart from many superleague wingers was his ability in space to link up with other players. He was brilliant in 2014 and 2015 and I actually felt he had a lot of room to improve as well. It’s my high opinion of his ability which makes me so frustrated when I see him not living up to that talent.

It’s all down to application for me but you can’t coach attitude and desire.

I don't get this bit.
Where does this bit about attitude and desire come from?
Like you say he was very good 2014/15
He started season very well 2017 up until his injury.
He played out of position occasionally and didn't sulk?

Back end of the year he had a few good games and showed glimpses of his early season form but suffered like everyone else did.

He needs a run of games, I remember offiah struggling 93 ish and just couldn't get going, and whilst I'm obviously not comparing him ability wise he's a similar style of winger where his pace etc. Give him the confidence.

He'll get his chances and in the mean time I hope he works hard, I just haven't seen any other evidence of where his application or desire should be questioned other than people having an issue with his comment that he's like to go back to the NRL one day and people taking offence to it.
His best chance of that is to perform for Wigan and that would be best for both parties in he long run.

Like yourself I'm fine with JT this season apart from the odd daft penalty. I was critical last season of him but so far a reasonable solid start to the season.
I take it that you would preferred that we had retained FPN Jukesie?

His work rate is poor, he doesn’t look like he fancies the tough carries out of his own end, he looked like he didn’t want to be there at points when playing at centre last year when opposition second rowers/centres would run at him, he looks too heavy and his comments and general demeanour smack of a lad that sees his Wigan career as a fallback option and very much second best. Is it desire, application, attitude? I’m not sure but he wasn’t on his own as you point out.

That’s honestly how I’ve seen him since he’s come back. I believe he’s massively talented but I also don’t think he applies himself as he could. He certainly doesn’t play at full throttle like you always see guys like Davies, Marshall and Manfredi do. There’s time for him to change that and that’s why I’m happy to see him being left out currently because it should give him a shake up.

There’s no doubting his talent.

Not at all, I just think he did a decent solid job last year whilst not earning the big bucks he was getting (but that's not his fault what the club paid him).

If he wants to go then pretty much like anyone else i believe it's the best allround.
However
What I was referring to is the constant need by some fans to pick scapegoats, their belief that if we get rid of player "x" like they suggest then the club would be better, constantly having digs at certain players (or coaches) just to promote their personal agendas/feelings and to be honest with you making up or telling half stories to get them across.

I've seen people state things as "Fact" that are based on what others have portrayed as Fact that aren't.

Apologies, went off track there, top line is I think wanes currently picking the right 19 to deal with the job in hand, but the people currently on the fringes will ALL have big parts to play this year and I dont think picking faults just to promote 1 idea or opinion over another does anyone any good.

Hamlin will get his chance; we have a whole season front of us.

Apparently Hamlin scored a 70 metre try for the reserves tonight against Keighley.

Just watched the highlights on WiganTV, he did indeed score a long range try, off a lovely inside ball close to the defensive line from Kibula. Hamlin didn't appear to play any part of the second half for some reason though.

Some nice scores there.

Perhaps hooked up to an oxygen tank

a 70m try is some effort from a forward!

His work rate has never been the greatest, it's my biggest gripe about him. Don't necessarily agree that he looked like he didn't want to be here when playing in the centre's. I don't see any evidence of that and would suggest there were far greater issues.
In your quote you've said "he looked like", "his general demeanour", "a lad who sees Wigan as his fallback option (I'll say more on this later), "he doesn't apply himself as he could".
I don't perceive that too be evidence based more an opinion or observation. A
All if the above I would suggest raised their head more to do with the whole teams lethargy rather than anything individually he didn't do. Looking back at his record last year he actually did very well first half or So of the season and his try scoring record was as good as it's always been. I reckon he had 15 or so in his first 15 games If not more?

It also coincided with the introduction and the performances of Davies and Marshall. Whilst agreeing that their work rate is superior to budgies I don't agree that this only just happened. Budgies work rate needed to improve BEFORE he left the club.
He does however offer different attributes and certainly his all round game is superior to Marshalls (currently and when fit).
However I agree if he doesn't get his head down and does react badly (Not that he has before) then any ideas he may have of one day trying NRL again will be harder to come by as he won't be putting himself out there to be seen/wanted.
What I want is for the "x" years of his contract, I want to see him perform as well as he Can. If that leads to opportunities elsewhere then that's a whole different debate. But while he is here then I want to get the best out of him, and I don't believe his attitude or performances have been bad, in fact they've been pretty good imo.
He does look a bit off presently but since he picked up that injury 5mins I to Leigh pre season game I would suggest he's 4/5 weeks behind others fitness etc wise. That may have a bigger effect than any perceived judgement of his attitude or desire.

I agree with much of that and I think we both agree he’s a superb player on his day. I’ve put his form last year more down to attitude but I could be wrong. The games I referred to about him struggling at centre were away at Cas and Leigh. He was appalling in both and looked she’ll shocked trying to defend against the opposition centres and backrowers (Webster in particular, who he looked like he didn’t fancy tangling with at all).

Ultimately I’d love nothing more then to see him back at his best. I loved watching the lad play in 2014/15. He looked happy and full of energy. It was a real contrast last year I felt but then who was overly pleased with things? I’d really love to see more from him though though. He’s got the talent to bring so much to this side but he’s got to get stuck in more and take the handbrake off.

Team announced (as expected):

Sam T
Davies
Bateman
Gildart
Marshall
Williams
Powell
Clubb
Lealuai
Flower
Joel T
Farrell
Lockers

Sutton
Tautai
Isa
Escare

We’re clearly suffering with the jet lag. As expected. But it appears we left Wire’s attack in aus, along with our own. They’re a bit naff, aren’t they...

We are playing truly awful,a decent side would be out of sight by now. Warrington are keeping mistakes to a minimum but I’m not too impressed.

If this is the price we pay for flying away to a nothing fixture I hope we never set foot on a runway again. What a dreadful standard the game is.

Is Thaler jet lagged as well ? He’s truly awful

The longer this goes on the less I blame jet lag and the more I blame our typically half hearted attitude we saw in 2017 and think we actually just cannot be d with an easy excuse of jet lag.

All the nonsense from last season is back in spades. Forwards being pansies across the board. Half backs and hooker non-existent other than to run around in circles, Williams more and more looking like he’s stealing a living as a marquee player.

Joel back to his best too...

That stupid flick pass. A good coach would take that out of his options in the job he has to do. I'm really disappointed with this performance. Totally disjointed and pathetic from all pivots in the team.

where was that effort in the first 60 minutes? We where low on energy and you can blame jet lag but the 5th tackle plays where shocking,even in the last 20 when we where on the front foot.

Isa not good enough, Powell not good enough, Williams not good enough and Bate,an not a centre depresses me, add to that Gildart is having a shocker of a start doesnt bode well. Did Davies get a pass today??

Much like last season at times tonight,naff all for most of the match then a little purple patch in the game that frankly flattered them