What does world class matter anyway. You could say that Williams and Widdop are world class, don't see it helping Wire win the Grand Final this year.

OK OK he doesn’t perform in a world class manner for a prop, he makes his ground in easy situations against 12 men and Bateman makes harder yards playing centre and/or against lesser teams than Catalans and has been just as good. Fair enough

I admit defeat - what we have all constantly seen with our own eyes for years is irrelevant and he’s only a world class prop if he tramples Australia in the World Cup.

I think any Wigan fan posting on Redvee would find the crowd a lot tougher.

Batemans stats don't include his part game at centre as it was in a the Challenge Cup and for whatever reason those stats don't get published.

No, no you couldn't.

There's at least 10+ superior HB's knocking around. How can you then be world classed as world class?

Well I'm glad you're finally admitting defeat. It's about time!



You're speaking as if I'm denying Walmsley as world class. I'm not and have said numerous times that I believe he is. What I am not understanding is how it's only someone in a Saints shirt who can be world class. If you're claiming "what we've all constantly seen for years with our own eyes" as the arbiter then that applies equally to Bateman, who has done what Walmsley has done and more.

Or he goes to the NRL and kills it. The true test.

Saints are poop and always will be

Going back to how this thread started...............how good would Walmsley be if he played the ball where he was tackled and not 5 yards further forward?

I actually this sometimes hinders us as well, as he slows the play the ball down by messing about and remonstrating with the ref. It's probably my only complaint with him that far too often he looks up and delays the play the ball instead of just getting on with it. Not saying he never moves off the mark, he certainly does. That's a rule that winds me up as no refs seem to bother much with it. But specifically with Walmsley, if you watch him you'll see it's a hindrance to us as much of a benefit at times, as he does faff about and actually slows the play the ball down.

My comment was very much tongue in cheek, but it can go both ways with him I suppose. I see plenty play the balls from him that allow Roby to scoot away because AW has moved away from the markers.

He's a great player BTW and hopefully smashes the Aussies all over the place in the world cup.

During your game against Hull Leon Pryce picked up on this, he said all through his career he's struggled playing the ball, maybe it's just the sheer size of the bloke that makes him struggle with his balance and he can't help but move forward

Yeah possibly. When we first signed him he was really clumsy with it. So whether it's a conscious effort to take an extra second and make sure he doesn't make an error I don't know. To me it looks like he's always having a little look up before playing it.

You couldn't, because they are not.

The point being made is because of the low standard of Super League it is hard to say whether someone is world class or not. With Walmsley, it looks like he is. But until you show it on the biggest stage continually: NRL, WCC, GB against Aus/NZ, then its just ifs and buts.

That is the same for any player in Super League.

Quite simple this really:

Bateman has proven he has World Class ability as indicated by his personal accolades in the NRL. Being awarded best back row in the best competition puts you into that bracket. His previous 18 months form is a different discussion.

Walmsley absolutely bosses Super League no question, and consistently at that. He may well be World Class, but his way of showing it will be to turn up in the World Cup which he hasn’t done yet. And by turn up I mean in the way the likes of Faz, Scully, Peacock, pre-Wigan Fielden, and Sam Burgess etc did…not just be solid at that level, excel at that level and rightly be branded World Class. Hopefully he can prove that to us all in a single tournament this autumn. I’d love nothing more for him to absolutely kill it against Tonga, NZ, and the Aussies.

*Awaits comments that Faz was crap for GB

There’s always some will say that…but IMO during that period of Faz & Scully we (GB) had the best pack in the world. We just didn’t quite measure up in the halves & outside backs consistently.

Agree. We always seemed close back then and then they'd pull something out of nothing.

I’ve thought about Walmsley and his dominance in this league a few times and considered how I rate him in comparison to that real golden trio of props we had in Peacock, Fielden and Morley and he could well be every bit as good and he’s actually dominating this league more than they did in their days but I can’t put him up with them and it all comes back to the games they did it in. The bigger the game, the better those guys were. The tougher the opponent, the more they raised their games. The memories I have of those guys are all from test matches and world club challenges (and the NRL in Morley’s case) and that is where they built their legacy and left every single fan who watched them in no doubt that they were World Class.

We had those 3 and then some crossover with Graham and Sam Burgess and they were 5 absolute world class players. There’s a chance Walmsley is in that bracket but if he sticks to dominating superleague and an average one at that but he doesn’t have those stand out international moments, dominates a world club challenge or three or goes and smashes an NRL stint, there’s no way he’s going down with those 5.

I would put Lockers in with them 5

Agreed, simply based on the fact that most players name him in either the best team they've played with or against on both sides of the world, but sadly we didn't see enough of him at International level.

Peacock is hands down, the greatest super league prop.

Fielden and Morley were no way as constistent and once Fielden got punched by Mason, he just went backwards at an alarming rate. Even before that, in big games he was so hit and miss. Sometimes he would boss the game and others, he would be invisible. Peacock was never invisible.

Walmsley has surpassed Fielden and I also think Morley but there is no way he would ever surpass Peacock

I was just sticking to props really with it being a comparison to Walmsley.

I’ll even take Lebrons points above about how consistent Walmsley has been for a few seasons now but you have to factor in that Fielden, Peacock, Morley, Graham etc we’re playing against each other. Who does Walmsley have challenging him week to week like those guys had?

FTV said people were a tough crowd because Walmsley ran for 140 metres against Catalans. That was meant to add weight to the view that Walmsley is world class but does it not just highlight where this comp finds itself? The top game for Walmsley so far this year has been against a Catalans side with 4 props consisting of Dudson, Bousquet, Napa and Kasiano. They’re good props by current standards but those guys above would’ve eat them alive. Dudson is decent and did 10 minutes off the field, Bousquet is decent and broke his arm, Napa has been awful for a couple of years now and got sent off and Kasiano isn’t bad but he’s well past his best and you know what? That is the best superleague can offer, no doubt about it and it’s a set of props we can’t match at the minute.

I genuinely do think Walmsley is world class but the key word is ‘think’. When your toughest test week to week is what I’ve just described above how can I ‘know’ he’s world class? I can’t and that’s why the World Cup (and future internationals/world clubs) is huge for him.

Up until your last sentence, probably the best post you've ever made on here.

Fielden had a lot going on back then and should never have gone on that tour TBH. Thankfully, in 2010 he had another great season after Maguire came in but you're right, he was never the same after the Mason incident.

Peacock was one of those players that even though he played for a rival you couldn't help but admire him (Cunningham was the same and I thanked him outside OT in 2010 for the pleasure of watching him play which he was quite shocked with seeing as I'm a Wigan fan but class is class regardless of their colours) sadly though all respect I had for him ended in 2015 and the more I see of his last few seasons the more I see he got away with absolute murder because of his name. How he stays on the field at Magic in 2014 is a mystery.