I agree Robinson.

Sadly I too fear for the game, and one of the reasons, perhaps predictably is our old friend the Communist Cap.

RU is currently "suffering" from losing players to the French league (where there is no CC in force).

How long before they say "enough" and scrap their cap? More immediately is the likelihood of them turning to RL to fill their vacancies.

RL on the other hand is happier cowering to the likes of Cas and Wakey and dumbing down to their levels.

Still with a chairman like ours who appears to be as tight as a fishes tight bits, then it looks like Wigan RL have no ambition in the "signing stars" department in any case.

If the cap was scrapped we would probably fill our squad with St Pats players.........

I wouldnt blame the cap as such, I mean several clubs were very nearly bankrupted, including ours.

In fact I would say that at the moment, a cap is necessary to stop things spiralling out of control.

That's not to say that I actually agree with the cap though. I would love it to be scrapped, but you can only do that if there is enough money in the sport, and you won't get that without sponsorship. you won't get sponsorship without promotion. And without promotion, you won't get fans, which means no sponsorship.

The buck has to stop with the RFL. They need to COMPEL the clubs, IMMEDIATELY to promote themselves by basically, bombarding the media with news. The RFL need to back the clubs by doing the same.

Then, and only then, will be we able to grow our sport to the potential we know it has.

I agree there has to be some kind of regulation.

However, a simple Turnover cap (based on the PRECEEDING seasons Turnover) would help to ensure the survival of clubs. Frankly you can never 100% ensure their survival, but that's a seperate debate.

i am going to upset the apple cart here the problem with regards to 2 games is when you see internationals they are sell outs,because they try and bring through youngsters and no just go for a quick fix ie overrated aussies and kiwis.i am a lover of both games because i am a season ticket holder at salford and my lad plays for orrell rufc.with regards to ru being behind i think you need take a look again they are miles in front with regards to everything media ie

that idea is far too straght forward for the RFL,

Some very interesting points throughout.

But what are our thoughts on improving RL?

-Marketing?
-The on field game?
-Salary Cap?
-Development of youth players?
-Development in other parts of the UK?
-Overseas development?

Discuss!

The RFL have at least put some foundations in place to help the game move forward, the main one being the franchises.

This will help develop youth players & eventually allow us to move outside the M62 corridor with a stronger player pool so new teams can have a credible line-up without being bashed for packing their sides with antipodeans but we need to lose our parochialism.

I think a lot of the flat-earthed philosophies come from the fact that people who follow Rugby League either feel that their team or other teams that have been around for many years and previously been successful are now being put to the sword for the sake of expansion and fail to grasp the bigger picture. I do emphathise with anybody who takes that position & I think the RFL need to avoid causing a schism within the game if it continues to expand.

Why spurn potential feeder clubs in the heartlands because they are not desirable? More money should be invested in the National Leagues to allow them to make improvements and bring through more youngsters and ease the pressure on the SL. This will improve the playing pool and potentially offer more quality talent for SL and International RL which in turn leads to a more competitive competition which can be marketed easier and attract a larger audience.

Another incentive is the larger the player pool the less problematic talent leaving the game becomes for RU as there will be adequate numbers to fill those lost positions - but I agree that the Salary Cap needs a massive overhaul for our game to progress in the near future.

Just as an aside, why does Union still operate a Salary Cap in this country if it has enough talent and money to be competitive and financially sound...or am I wrong in that assumption?

Trying not to be negative, most of the development/improvement ideas have actually been tried, but in a half hearted way.

RL doesn't have a lot of money so it's difficult to expand without a long term slow burning plan.

I am also perturbed by RL in London. 28 years and spectator figures have plateaued for years. It's positive there are locals in the Quins squad but that's about it. The profile down here is nil. Like Robinson I meet lots of people who, when they hear I am from Wigan, start talking RL. Some have even heard of Stains! None have heard of Quins RL. There are lots of ex-pat northerners and Aussies here who don't go to watch RL in the capital, and I'm not sure why. I may be guilty of thread drift here but the condition of RL in London is an example of where RL fails.

London have been lucky to survive as they have done for me because they came about when the RFL knew nothing about expansion (Paris anybody?)

It's profile however has been hampered by the fact it has never established itself as one entity for very long. Fulham had about three years at Craven Cottage before turning into the nomads of RL for the next ten years.

Add to that name chages and further ground changes (The Valley, The Stoop, Griffin Park) just added to the problems. Harlequins RL will be unknown for the time being because everybody knows Harlequins as being the RU side - but hopefully a period of stability at the Twickenham Stoop for this side can allow them to find a fanbase that don't need to move around like Alan Whicker to follow them -- London has already done a lot to bring youngsters into the game so it is popular.

interesting to see the governement throw its support behind the rfu's bid to host the union world cup in england in 2015.
not been so forthcoming in their support for the 2013 rugby league bid.
shame we haven't got anyone on the inside! where's andy burnham when you need him? ...oh wait



[urlhttp://www.sportinglife.com/rugbyunion/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=rugby/09/02/18/RUGBYU_RFU_Nightlead.html[/url

-Marketing?
As mentioned in my previous posts about compelling clubs to make one press release a day.

I also don't see why the RFL must go after cash for sponsorship. Why can't they do 'deals in kind' so to speak. In other words, we will welcome Cadbury on board as sponsor of a competition, if they promote said competition on their chocolate wrappers.

The same could be applied to many, many products. Also, give tickets to celebrities for cup finals Harlequins and Celtic games. I'm sure the press would pick up on, say, Charlotte Church cheering on Celtic, wearing their colours.

-The on field game?
Slow it down a bit so it's less about 'run and collide'. Go back to 5 metre defences to encourage creativity and deep attack.

Competitive scrums - no pushing as this causes too many penalties, but the scrumhalf should be compelled to put the ball in straight, and the hookers should actually 'hook'

Allow striking at the play the ball. HAVING possession, shouldnt ENTITLE you to it

Five min sin bin for minor offences, 10 min sin bin for major ones, no sending off.

-Salary Cap?
There should be one, with a view to getting it abolished by 2020. Players under 20 should not count on the cap. Aussies count double. Aussies over 27 count treble. Concessions should be made to players brought through by the club and for loyalty to that club.

-Development of youth players?
Not an area I know a great deal about. As a spectator, though, I'd like to see a return to the old days of skill, creativity and a 'defining point' in the individual's game being nurtured and encouraged, rather than coached out in favour of a set formula.

-Development in other parts of the UK?
Is essential. Eventually, I'd like to see a team based in Cardiff or Swansea. The welsh love their rugby of either code, and I'd love to see a big massive rivalry down there. I'd say the same about London, but that will take longer to nurture - certainly as long as it takes for the kids playing the sport to become adults.

-Overseas development?
Long term. Lets get our core nations competitive first, and our sport in the general public eye first.

Good point, I have heard numerous interviews with Andy Burnham on 5live and he has not mentioned RL once

this is the same guy that before he got into the cabinet was shouting rugby league's praises from the rroftops... it's all gone quiet andy!

Andy Burnham's from Leigh. What would he know about rugby league?

still he should know more about league than union... just a bit more

Robinson, love the point about Aussies over 27 and the salary cap!

I was deadly serious and all! I'm sick of SL clubs bringing in over the hill Aussies who time and time again prove themselves to be in search of a holiday. Too often they fill pivotal positions where we should be nurturing our own people.

Robinson,this is getting dangerous........before long I'll be wanting to have your children!

No you won't. It's just the law of averages that he came up with a good idea (regarding overseas players older than 27). Rest easy. It was a fluke.

Dave

I agree with DaveO

I'll take your advice...

I think if you count stadiums the other code mite just win if you compare the top 12 as it stands now against the 12 guiness premiership sides.

quite a few are playing in football stadiums. and more than a few don't even play in their traditional home towns

This whole 69 page thread has reminded me of something a famous Welsh rugby player who played RL for a while (for the money) once said at my local RFC- 'I think Union and League fans have alot in common. They are both obsessed with Union.'

Says the Union fan who digs up a 14 year old thread on a League board....