To play 60 mins with 12 and if you include 10 mins with 11 men and still win is a great achievement in my book especially against a team that could have won everything for next few years (not my quote) what with their golden generation etc.

10 mins with the opposition down to 11 men and still couldnt score,that is embarrassing to say the least.
Anyway cant wait to see all those fantastic players get back playing for Saints.

Was a massive achievement to win 4 in a row but am I wrong that they should have had more, didn’t they loose two season back to back at the start of their reign a play off to cas sticks out to me. Wigan still early on and we fluffed the title again Leeds in the play offs. Hopefully we can go on a dominant run

I still think St Helens will come very close to the GF, if not make it. We've seen this play out a few times before - remember 2016 when we lost to Widnes at home with one of the worst performances in living memory. We went on to win the title. Remember 2017 when Leeds got pumped by 50 points at Cas and went on to win it.

Saints will have a big group of players coming back into the side who will be well rested for the end of the year. They'll also have a group who have been criticised all year with an opportunity to make a lot of people look very silly with just three wins in the playoffs.

Its not a criticism as our fans would be the same but I think theres a few in the Saints fan base who are going a little over the top at the minute. I understand the frustration with Wellens but he is working with a squad in decline as opposed to a squad in their prime as Holbrook and Woolf were. Theyll need to find a way of improving their attack - ultimately when the playoffs come around I think their best chance will be to turn to their more experienced players.

If they end up travelling to Warrington in a playoff semi final for example - they would be favourites in my mind.

I think it all depends on how many they keep losing. They've lost 7 already with Leigh away next week.

Let's look at their remaining fixtures:

Leigh (A) - Tough game.
Hull FC (A) - Should Win.
Salford (H) - Tough game.
Wigan (Magic) - Tough game.
Hull KR (H) - Tough game.
Huddersfield (A) - Should Win.
Wire (A) - Tough game.
Cas (H) - Should Win.
Leigh (A) - Tough game.

Obviously they will have players to come back gradually but even so that's not an easy run in, especially when you've lost 7 already.

6 Tough games and 3 Should Win games, now will they go on and lose every tough game - very much doubt it. But its not inconceivable they won't lose an additional 3-5 matches out of those nine remaining. Will that get you into the playoffs? Touch and go.

It's all going to be about getting those players back, while trying to limit too much damage. If they can stick in the top 4, then I still have them as the biggest challenge to Wigan going back to back. That's not to say Wire, HKR etc couldn't topple us in a one off game but I think we'd need to be off for that to happen. Against a fully fit Saints side, I still think we could play pretty well and get beat, especially if the weather comes in and makes the game a real grind. There will be a real determination to end things on a high for somebody like Makinson and the other guys leaving and there is a lot of power to come back in the forwards via Walmsley, Matautua, Batchelor and so on.

They're clearly not the force they were and without some good recruitment they could drop away a bit over this next couple of years but for now we'd be foolish to write them off because much stranger things have happened than this Saints side winning a Grand Final.

Why wait until next season?

Why should they have had more?

You cannot point to exits in the play offs and say they should have had more.

How do you know that Mr Clown (there you are using a capital letter for a name)? Answers on a postage stamp please. I await with interest your response.

The admin posted that it was an issue with them losing their security license so the website was showing up as not secure (it did indeed do that for me for a little bit)

Would be a bit weird to do all that just because of someone posting posts on twitter lol. It’s a public forum

Eh, 2017 we spent half the year stinking up the joint with KC, Holbrook took over and took us from about 8th to 3rd (I think) and we lost in golden point to a Cas team that had won the LLS in scintillating fashion. Would be harsh to include that as one we should have won. We did completely collapse at the end of 2018 and limped out of the play offs to a fairly poor Wire team though, as well as losing to Catalan in the CC semi which we should have been winning as they were far from the team they are now.

Though you could also argue that we should have at least been getting to the GF and CC final last year.

You lost to better teams last year,no argument there.

I was going off his comments based on the expectation going in. We should have been beating Leigh and realistically dominated the game and should have been winning it with how it went on the day, but we didn't. I never really expected to beat Catalan away in the play-offs and that was the 1 fixture I was dying for us to avoid so I'd agree we weren't really expected to win that one. As we were favourites to win the GF all year though, you'd have to say that it also fits his criteria.

I didnt know you were favourites all year.
Didnt Leigh win the CC so I wouldnt think that you had the right or the arrogance to think you should win.
Do you think you will win the GF this year ?

I feel like, either genuinely or willfully, you are completely misinterpreting the posts I'm making. His comment was 4 in a row was impressive, but when you look at the reign we should have had more. That's what I was responding to, based on criteria that he'd set. I was disagreeing that you could count 2017 as we were absolute dog for more than half of that year, and were never really expected to do anything. Then as a counterpoint, said perhaps you could include last year in that instead.

Yes, we were favourites with the bookies to win the GF all year, even up to the Catalan match kicking off iirc, but very much until the last day of the regular season at the very least.

Im not really sure why you're acting as though me saying we should have beat Leigh is a controversial statement, but then it looks like you've set out just to argue for the sake of it

I did not set out to argue for the sake of it.
My saying that about Leigh was because they had won the CC and could not be took likely of which you did,reminds me those years ago when you was drawn with Cats and your lot cheered,didnt turn out as planned.How do you think you will do this season ?

I’m generally one of the optimistic ones but it’s hard to keep any optimism right now. Until very recently I was confident we’d be there or there abouts come play off time and that I’d back us to beat most (only ones I wouldn’t want to face before the GF would be you or cats away) but I don’t have that confidence any more. I can’t really see anything other than us limping out of the play offs at the minute unless something changes drastically. You’d imagine our defence will go back to being hard to break down when we have bodies back, but we’ve just failed to score more than 10 points against a side with 12 men and a period with 11, we’ve failed to score more than 12 against the majority of big teams we’ve faced this year and scored 6 against a woeful castleford side. I don’t see us scoring anywhere near enough points in a game to worry you, cats or wire and possibly even Hull KR come the big games

Always keep that optimism as anything can happen in a one off game.

i dont think any knowledgeable Wigan fan will be writing Saints of yet. Yes, there'll be plenty of banter if you lose & vice versa, but i dont think anyone will be underestimating you

There's too much rugby left to play, and a couple of key injuries / suspensions can make a big difference. Clearly both sides are waiting on key players coming back, with you missing more than us a present. But as we all know, with the current format, all it needs is a fully fit team for the playoffs (ideally a couple of games beforehand to build some momentum)

Was listening on SKY just over a week ago, and the LLS was done and dusted, so everyone playing for 2nd spot. Whilst that could be true, any complacency will bite us on the big time. We need to use the loss to Hull as a kick up the , get back to doing the basics well, and using our pack for the full 80 minutes (rotating) as we could have some forwards who are knackered come the play offs if they dont get a rest. I get that Thompson, Havard, Ellis, Faz have the engines and ability, but the others need to step up and make sure that these guys get some rest

The thing with clubs like Wigan and Saints is that playing in finals and winning finals is in it's DNA. You can forget what's gone before when the play offs come and just that knowhow can be invaluable in getting you through games and then if you get to a final, anything can happen. Look at what Leeds used to do, struggle through the weekly rounds and then change in to a different animal in the play offs. This current Saints team won't be anything like the one which would turn up in a play off game. They'll put in a similar effort to last week against us but probably with 5 or 6 of their better players back in the side.

that the main reason why wire have signed Bateman I think - they need some of that experience of just being hard to beat in big games . Saints have that in spades.

Dont think Saints have that in spades anymore,didnt last year so far havn't this year.

Not saying they cannot win the GF but if they do it would be a great achievement.

I think Wigan,Wire,HKR are better placed,and with Wire getting Batement that will be a strong team.

Have Saints got anyone expected back for the Leigh game?

redvee now requires sign up? shame

Think it's just Tommy Mak as a possibility this week. Well i say "just", that's a pretty big returnee especially with how much he will help getting yardage out of our own 20. Assuming he will drop Ritson. Blake hasn't been very good the last month or so imo, but he is much better than Ritson at carrying the ball out of yardage as well, although I think Ritson has gone alright since he came back to the team. Seems to put a bit of worry into the defence, and cops a lot of high tackles too

Also, Hurrell now confirmed to be out for the rest of the season, which seems to give credence to the Naiquama rumours. At least on the surface