Both Hock and Hardacker where coke heads put the club put a lot of money to reabiliate them so making a racist jibe isnt going to get the sack!

Correct

I agree 100% with the first 3/4 of the post
But when you start getting into shoulda woulda couldas it starts to muddy waters and creates perception that your doing x because of y etc.

The length remaining on his contract is irrelevant IMO, we should treat him the same whether he has 6months or 3 years left on the deal.

Grow up

[url=https://wiganwarriors.com/blog/2021/05/05/wigan-warriors-disciplinary-outcome-tony-clubb/Further sanctions from the club for Clubb[/url

The club's fine is heavier than the RFL's.

I'm happy with the outcome here. As has been said before, to sack him could be harsh. He's made a mistake, granted a terrible one, and it seems that he's held his hands up. Obviously Savelio is the victim here but the club, and game as a whole could learn from this. By the very fact that a lot of people don't see any racist connotation in what he said tells us that education on these matters needs to improve.

What will education do tho? It almost falls into the realms of speed awareness courses i.e people go on the course and ultimately forget about them after a few days later. In many ways they take the course as it's soft option Vs real punishment.

Let's be realistic - if a person is racist, homophobic etc then sitting in a classroom for a couple of weeks isn't going to change their outlook on life.

One of the things I find most astonishing is that during the match, as its all kicking off and during the 'heat of the moment' Clubb came out with 'Polynesian'.

That's up there with Antipodean.

Personally think the punishment is lenient - I definitely think Clubb should have publicly apologised.

Hopefully that will be forthcoming, especially with us playing them again on Sat

Dom Manfredi will be in the 21 man squad. Not sure Lam will move the backline around in a big game just to accommodate him though.

Neither is Polynesian.

Looking at social media and talking to people there seems to be mixed views on if what he said is racist or even offensive. Things move on and change and it's not just a question of black or white. The worlds a much smaller place and people are ignorant, perhaps through no fault of their own, to what constitutes an offensive comment and what doesn't.

There's a post above this saying Polynesian isn't a race. There's some ambiguity around whether or not it is a race but I would argue that it is.

Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander

Ive heard it said that the judge of whether a comment is offensive has to be the person it is aimed at....

Spot on. I read the comment you’re replying to and the poster says what will sitting in a classroom for a couple of weeks do, if you’re racist, you’re racist and that’s unlikely to change. There is surely a difference between being a racist and making a racist comment you may not have been aware would be taken that way? That is where education and support would help all players.

I said at the start of all this that there isn’t a league table of racist comments based on severity but ultimately I think we’d all be in agreement that Clubb should’ve been sacked had he racially abused a black player for example but we all get to see/hear examples of black people being racially abused on a very regular basis. This is different and whilst it’s wrong and it will be upsetting for Savelio, his family and the Polynesian race in general, I think there’s enough ambiguity on the situation (as you say) to cut him some slack and use it as a way of trying to help all the players across the game.

What I would agree with from posts above is that Clubb really should come out and apologise on this. I get he couldn’t do that until this case was closed but there’s nothing stopping him now. I would hope we’ll hear him do that or at least hear that he’s spoken to Savelio in private.

You aren't going to change someone who is actively racist, but I think you can educate people who perhaps didn't think about the impact of his words, or how they might impact the person on the other end of them. I'd like to think Clubb is in the latter category, ignorant rather than racist, which can hopefully be rectified with education.

You call it realistic
I say that if a person goes on a speed awareness course to "Only" find the easiest soft option then that speaks more about the person involved than it does about the society we want.
I would suggest that a Lot of people take the speed awareness course and LEARN from it
If they don't they will soon be back there and you don't get a 2nd chance and the punishment is greater and could include a Ban etc or worse if they keep reoffending?

other option

Do nothing - How does that help?
Sack him (The equivalent of lock him up throw away the Key) - Good luck with that, and to don't be surprised if there were multiple ramifications from that type of outlook

Your also saying if a person is racist as if it is a (No pun intended here honest) Black & White subject, it isn't - It is a much more nuanced situation with many angles and grey areas, I wouldn't call myself racist, have I made mistakes yes, but I would call them clumsy honest mistakes rather than deliberate ones. There has to be a way back from such situations rather than immediately saying You're a racist and forever will be one.
I had the unfortunate misfortune of being part of a WhatsApp group for a Last Man Standing (Football thing to win money) which has over a hundred people in it.
Last night after the 8 match announcement you had the noisiest people on that group shouting the loudest from the Right Wing/Left Wing of the subject. I.e. He's done nowt wrong, you can't say anything these days, lefty Snowflakes on one side to the "It's the worst thing in the world, Zero tolerance etc. Brigade on the other
The truth lies in-between and the silent majority are probably not too far away with their thoughts in the middle but just can't be bothered discussing with idiots from wither side.

it's a delicate situation
I wouldn't; expect someone who does 35 in a 30 to get the same punishment as someone who's stole a car, and is doing 100mph with dangerous intentions - Whilst both are technically Speeding there is a world of difference between the two - But some want to implement say a Zero tolerance side of the argument - Whilst others will say Bloody Hell haven't the Police got better things to do than worry about someone going a bit over the speed limit - Neither is right to apply the same punishment to both offences.

I saw a Hull fan saying how can Liam Farrell get away with a head high tackle when Connor gets sin binned and a subsequent ban
If that person can't see the difference between the two that's their problem no matter how loud they shout
Someone wanted Havard (I think they called him Havant) suspended the same as the guy from Leeds for a shoulder charge after the ball had gone
If that person can't see the difference between the two that's their problem no matter how loud they shout

"IF" Clubb has held his hands up and apologised, Owned his mistake and wants to learn from it then he deserves the chance to do so and the club should help him with that.

I'm not certain that even the RFL have been able to decide whether Polynesia is race or a place, and I'm worried now that they might have just opened themselves up to a whole raft of claims/reports, based on their press release.

The first paragraph reads:

That now means that nationality is classed equally with race?

So calling (for instance) Brian Carney a silly Irish {insert insult here}, or an Aussie calling someone a Pommy {insult}, etc. would be deemed equally offensive to the use of black/n****r/p*ki ???

Surely that can't be right?

Lifting the mood - Surely re-educating Clubb should be fairly simple.
Teach him to use single-word insults, or double-word if he REALLY means it.

In other words, stick to either "c***" or "fxxxing cxxx".

You've missed my point slightly.

I'm not saying that he shouldn't have been punished and I'm also not saying that we should sack him either. Like you, I've seen calls for both - they are wrong and 8 matches + a fine is right for me.

What I am arguing however is that there's little point in the education part. I get the theory behind it, but for me it's academic or signalling BS. Let's take Clubb as an example - I don't think he's racist (the character testimonials back that up) and I don't think he's an idiot either. He's probably said what he did to get a reaction (heat of the moment) & whilst that's still wrong and something he needs to be punished for - what benefit will there be to the course? Are we saying he's that thick that he doesn't know what racism is?

For a driving awareness course, you don't need to be told that speed kills. It's pretty obvious. I occasionally speed and I'm sure most on here do too. I'm fully aware of the dangers and implications of that. I also know that, if I get caught, then I'll be punished inline with how much I'd broken the speed limit. I don't need to go on a course to learn that.

In regards to your other points about not being able to see the difference, you are right. I wouldn't however think that going on an education course would help them understand it any better.

No one has been enslaved, treated as a second class citizen, denied job opportunities etc for being Australian or British. They have, and still do, suffer that for being Polynesian, black etc. That's the difference.

Or - and seeing as the post you replied to mentioned it - Being Irish

As I say - Technically a very difficult subject to discuss as some will always say "What about this or what about that".
At the risk of stoking up a whole can of worms from this time last year regarding BLM etc. I just think we should listen more to people who have experienced it, rather than listening to people who are just tired of listening to the response to it.

No it isn't the difference.

You can't on one hand say it's ok to say British, Pommy, White etc before the C word and then argue it's not ok to say black, Polynesian, Asian etc before it.

You equally can't be denied a job because of your skin colour (regardless of what it is).

Equality means exactly what it says.

Can you give any evidence to support your claim that people are STILL being enslaved or treated as second class citizens for being any ethnicity other than white?

I’m sure they have in the past, I’m no historian, but I’m pretty sure every nation/race on earth has been oppressed at some point in time.

There’s a lot of evidence that white people are actually the ones being denied job opportunities, university places etc. in order to fill some diversity quota, all the while being told that they have “white privilege” and are inherently racist.

Oh dear And a word of caution to the mods here to keep an eye in this But just for the previous poster, here it is on your own doorstep https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.wiga ... 9458%3famp Or https://www.wigantoday.net/news/crime/w ... mes-704050 I won't give too many details about a mate of mine getting beat up last summer in Wigan whilst having racial abuse shouted and screamed at him, 2 of the 4 were women as well

Oh dear And a word of caution to the mods here to keep an eye in this But just for the previous poster, here it is on your own doorstep https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.wiga ... 9458%3famp Or https://www.wigantoday.net/news/crime/w ... mes-704050 I won't give too many details about a mate of mine getting beat up last summer in Wigan whilst having racial abuse shouted and screamed at him, 2 of the 4 were women as well