You come out from hiding then?

Yes halves were very poor and I always worry about Wigan in wet weather games. Going for 2 when we did was a strange one.

Michael Mcilorum was incredible.

In the main I agree with you. But I would add to the list 2 props, a hooker and a stand off. We need to replace some of our average overseas players with class signings. That pack of forwards are collectively not good enough and the problem is that we don’t have any players on the sidelines that will make a difference.

Too many stupid errors and silly mistakes, a bang average forward pack and a lack of any coherant game plan, what an awful game to watch absolutely zero entetainment (weather obviously did not help and a ref who allowed so much holding down, players staying in the ruck after they had made a tackle and offside, for both teams).

The halves weren't great but had zero platfrom from the forwards to work from - Mago at least made a few yards when he came on but the rest were nowhere near good enough against what was a fairly second string Catalan.A pack of plodders sadly.

Next game I would go with Field at 6, French at 1, Miski on the wing and Cust on the bench at 9.

I do think we will be making wholesale changes at the end of this season, however we can’t simply write off this season already.

I do think attitude plays a major part in our downfall. Sometimes we just don’t look up for it, usually when the conditions are a poor.

Think a few lads have bought their own hype.

KPP needs a good enforced rest, I’d rather see us develop Nsemba than run with him at the moment. Probably time for Byrne to get another crack.

It’s over to Peet now he did a great job in his first season but I do think at the moment he is coming up short, along with a number of players and we need to be decisive and react.

Iv been calling for the Field/French switch since midway through last year as I think having them both in the spine of the team gives us the best chance. Cust is not offering enough from 6 to justify being there and he may well have played his better rugby in the NRL at 9.

Harry Smith was very frustrating tonight with some really key errors - kicking out on the full twice is unforgivable in those conditions. But at other times he played some really smart rugby and at least had a say in the game unlike Cust.

If Miski is the answer, then we're asking the wrong questions. I'd happily see us try our luck and see if Wakey will take him on loan for the rest of the season. Get the quota spot open and hopefully IL can reinvest that Bateman fee.

I'll get shot down for it, but I'll happily say that we aren't good enough to win the comp. It's not an opinion based off a bad result, but knowing the team we have. We'll have a great May - August, playing some free flowing stuff and might (with a lucky draw or two) have a good cup run. Come late Sept/Oct it will be like tonight again, or like it was Vs Leeds last year and we won't have a plan B.

Don’t think I said Miski is the answer. A major reshuffle even if a temporary one of the spine is though as at the moment it’s not good enough.

Changing up 1, 6, 9 which will be instigated by bringing in Miski, isn’t suggesting Miski is the answer.

I agree in regards our play once the grounds firm up, there is too much pace in the team not to play some great off the cuff attacking rugby, but like you say champions are not crowned when the conditions are suited to that style of play.

For once I'm not actually arguing with you - something needs to change. I just think Miski doesn't offer much and any advantage gained from swapping lads around, is somewhat negated by the introduction of Miski into the side.

OT as I know you're close to Wakey - what's been your opinion of Proctor so far? I saw him a couple of weeks back and, whilst Wakey were dire, he put in a decent enough shift. I think he topped the tackle chart that night. I'd be happy to see Miski going as a swap for the rest of the year.

Our 9 plays the game in slow motion, he's killing us

I don't think mixing up the spine is going to make too much difference if our pack can't put in a dominant performance when our opposition actually puts up a bit of resistance.

Out of our props not one really excelled. A few did some good things. Mago made a handful of strong carries but it's nothing but a brief cameo. Ellis's offload for Smith's try was smart play but ultimately the first notable thing he's done since punching Jordan Dezaria in the face. Singleton, Cooper, Havard did little of note (lets not talk about Singleton's 'effort' on Manu Ma'u).

Whether we've got Isa or KPP it's a shockingly ineffective right edge for a top level team. Isa has had a good career out of being slightly above average most games but average should never be the benchmark. KPP should have taken his chance to be a regular starter and shown what he's capable of but he's all stylish offloads with no substance (minus the stylish offloads). There's not enough threat from that right edge.

Powell, sometimes an easy target but I thought his decision making (40/20 aside - that was great vision) was pretty terrible tonight and there was absolutely zero pace in anything that he did. He runs the ball at the wrong times, doesn't run the ball when there's an opportunity to do so. Sometimes the easiest way to trouble teams is just to threaten middle defenders that someone quick and agile is going to run at them.

Some really good points here, have to disagree about Cooper - good workrate but no decent hooker to take advantage and Havard ran his blood to water in attack and defence - that there was no outcome is down to the creative players?

I applaud McIlorum tonight. A masterclass in showing up an opposite number. Not sure where we go when the last few weeks have produced yet more peaks and troughs in performance week-to-week. Just left feeling like I’ve seen this all before last year.

I’m with CP, that pack is not good enough to win titles. Regarding our creativity, if Cust is considered to be a halfback then trade descriptions come into play. He is slow, doesn’t have a kicking game and his distribution is poor. Oh, and his defence is shocking. He should be sat in the stands with me.

Our pack is killing us.

Unless our pack can stand up and be counted then at matters not who is selected in the spine.

I’m still trying to,work out why they did that

If the game was tommorrow it would be on a dry pitch

But with the same set of useless forwards selected.

I also agree that the pack is, as a unit, not good enough - my issue is with the assessment of Cooper/Havard on their performance tonight.

Not a totally unexpected result. A very average team who worked hard and used a few spoiling tactics totally floored us.
We have played poorly in 3 games so far this season. I exclude the Wakefield game as they we appalling in the extreme. The first half against Cas was abysmal.
Apart form Marshall not one other player has played well this season. A pretty horrendous opinion but for me it’s broadly accurate.
My worry is that we have nothing in squad to replace a team currently devoid of dog and urgency.
I put the majority of the blame with the coaching staff. When was the last time we started well?
We need to forget our CC win from nearly a year ago and get back to basics.
Our discipline in giving away cheap penalties is unforgivable.
I expect a defeat again next week and then it will be hey lads hey.
Lots of work to do and I haven’t totally written us off but realistically I can’t see us being anywhere near good enough come October. It’s going to be a long season.

Very few options but I’d replace Singleton with Byrne and Isa with Ellis dropping KPP from the squad. Not sure if that is anywhere near good enough but I don’t see any other options.
If things carry on I predict that young Forber will be playing on a regular basis come April.
Interesting times albeit very frustrating times.

Ok, I agree with that.

Cust and Powell should also be sat in the stands. The last time Cust had a good game was in the CC Semi-final. If he is an halfback then we might as well give up.

Quote ="Zig"Cust and Powell should also be sat in the stands. The last time Cust had a good game was in the CC Semi-final. If he is an halfback then we might as well give up.'" I am now worried as Phil Clarke seems to agree with me! https://www.seriousaboutrl.com/phil-cla ... nal-70157/

Quote ="Zig"Cust and Powell should also be sat in the stands. The last time Cust had a good game was in the CC Semi-final. If he is an halfback then we might as well give up.'" I am now worried as Phil Clarke seems to agree with me! https://www.seriousaboutrl.com/phil-cla ... nal-70157/

Fair one Zig, didn't want to appear nitpicking but I thought Havard really got stuck in and as a "Junior" pro showed up some others tonight.

I