Come on Brian tantalise us a bit more

Ellis played most of his NRL games at LF

Will it be soon?

I agree we are comfortable with lads who can drop into 13 however I think we are thin on the ground with quality second rows.

Faz is obviously top class, KPP has fantastic potential but he is still far from the finished article, Isa I have really rated at Wigan but he is clearly on the decline and Nsemba is an unknown.

The rest of the lads are “middles” not specialist backrows with the exception of Smithies.

No need to panic as you say however it is an area that needs addressing but it has to be the right player with quota spots opening next year and from what I can see no real top secondrows becoming available who are non quota in 24.

He may have played 20 games or so sticking his head in the third row of a scrum but I don't think that he played LF.
Playing a prop at LF is normally done to beef up the front row because of concerns on their ability to dominate the forward battle.. By doing so I suspect that it could reduce our attacking threat.

Smithies came on leaps and bounds last season and may yet develop into a fine LF and I hope that 2023 we will see more ball skills from him. At the time of writing he may have the 13 shirt and coming along quite nicely but he isn't a LF yet. This in itself wouldn't be a problem if we had a strong second row but unfortunately at the moment we haven't and if Farrell should get any long term injuries then we will be in a right mess.

I think the 13 you are talking about is no more at the moment to be honest.

Most teams run with middles at 13 now rather than the natural ball playing 13, with 1 taking over the play maker role.

We have been very spoilt at Wigan with great ball handling 13s up until the retirement of SOL who could do the tough stuff and also be creative.

I don’t think there is one in the game now like them, certainly not in SL.

The game has changed, maybe not for the better in that regard. I certainly don’t see Smithies suddenly developing a creative game.

Ellis at St George had a similar style to Graham when he played 13 in that he took the ball deep into the line and then found his halves with out the back plays. Not see much of that yet at Wigan from him though.

I wouldn't disagree with vast majority of that Jon.

What I would say is that only a few maybe a couple of years ago I would state that Offiah wouldn't get a game in the expectations of coaches what represents a good winger. Today we have French and Marshall who are both small but flyers. Every team in SL is now looking for fast wingers rather than 17 stone metre makers. I am pretty confident that "old fashioned" loose forwards will come back into vogue but that will only occur if at scholarship levels coaches look to develop players with good ball handling skills together with a good passing game.

My concern with our pack next year is that we are undercooked in the backrow particularly the second row.
Isa, Farrell and Shorrocks are all small for a second row forward and for me we cannot afford to have more than one of these guys on the field at anyone time if we are to beat Saints in the majority matches.
Saints are the the acid test and when they beat us it is invariably because of the intensity and strength of their pack that outweighs our firepower in the backs.On paper our pack has deteriorated albeit I never thought that a Farrell/Bateman combination would give us long term success.

If Farrell gets injured for a lengthy spell I think that our season could be over. The majority of potential backrow cover is too inexperienced and too small, It was the same last season but at least we had a couple of sizable guys coming through the ranks in Nicholson and McDonnell that gave us hope of addressing the size issue. Nsemba could be the one to come through but it is asking a lot of a young guy with little or no experience in the first team.
The backrow excluding Farrell could be Isa/KPP/Smithies. Don't think we'd do particularly well with that as a starting backrow.

We have on paper resolved our centre issue and I think that Cooper for a full season is a major step up.
Having Tommy in the coaching setup I am hoping will improve the team a lot more than some people think.
I'm not disappointed that Bateman has gone just a little peeved how he strung the club on which has put us in this position.

I agree in regards secondrow. It’s an area of concern and from one of our strengths it’s quickly gone to one of our weaker areas of the squad.

We have thought to look who is available, if a player of the correct quality isn’t available we need to look at other areas where quality players are available in the short term.

We obviously need to be making provisions for secondrow moving into 2024 and that process I’ve no doubt will have started and been accelerated by Burgess departure.

With Isa and KPP gone after this year we are desperate to bring in 2 quality replacements for them.

Cooper and Singleton may move on as well in addition to KPP and Isa - if so some big changes to the forward pack as a whole.

Maybe Harvie Hill and Junior Nsemba can fill two of those spots but very likely we'll see a new front rower and one or two second rowers by 2024.

The ideal would be one of Tom Burgess or Luke Thompson as the front rower (not asking much there) and we'll have to use a quota spot for the 2nd rower as there are no English candidates that I can think of.

If we are looking at english players then Whitehead would be high up on my list if he was available/interested

With the big news, are you speaking generally or specifically? If it's the latter then a PM would be handy

Hopefully the big news is now imminent .
Be a good day for an announcement

yeah thats what LF does these days

or tomorrow

RG is a very reliable poster / well known fan. I hope his source is correct.

Time to give up on the big news yet?

There simply isnt any

Hopefully something still in the pipeline.

Was Rocky Hampshire

There is no news..

What was Rogues on about then?

i guess you would need to ask him

Regardless of this news that is in reality no news we have managed to lose 2 very aggressive players in Bateman and Partington.

Byrne has a bit of mongrel in him, and Ellis has shown signs, but we need some of the other lads particularly Havard and KPP to increase their on field persona in that department significantly as those 2 in particular let the KR pack roll them over and tickle their tummies on Saturday.

So let me get this right - the "mongrels" Byrne and Ellis who managed 8 carries and 51m between them are what Havard (10 & 61m on his own) should be aiming for? I've zero doubt (as you've already said it) that you think Singleton is some kind of master prop too. That's despite him making a whopping 35m.

No doubt this would be one of those "gospel" truths that people latch onto. Reminds me of the old "Lockers isn't a captain" argument because he didn't shout at players.

Havard is fine and will be a great player.

I think the world of Havard and even as is, he’s our best prop but I do think he lacks natural aggression and that could mean he stays as a good Superleague prop, when IMO he should go on to be an international and one of the best props in the world.

I don’t think Jonh is bagging him as such but simply pointing out guys like him and KPP lack that natural mongrel that guys like Bateman and Partington have. Maybe the reason for that is obvious, in that the latter 2 need to have that due to a lack of size. Combine the size and natural ability of Havard, with the attitude and aggression of Partington and you have a World Class player. If Havard can just find a bit of an edge he can go wherever he wants to in his career.