Gildart is first choice for England but wouldn't make the Saints 17? Aye alright.

Brad Singleton



I suppose we'll get to see how effective Singleton and Bullock are tonight against a Saints pack that will be badly weakened by Big Al's absence. Can't say I'd be swapping Singleton for Amor in a hurry.

Powell has had a great season but one thing you can't see from stats is perfection of delivery from DH - Roby is simply brilliant in that respect.

Percival is the most talented centre at both clubs IMO, and far superior to Hardaker/Naiqama. Shame he and Gildart have missed so much rugby as they are both great to watch.

So what about the rest of the post?
Only 3 players get in Saints side? Really???

Saints have been well coached for 2 1/2 years and its improved some of your players.
Before that practically the same set of players and you wouldn't get more than 3 of them in the wigan 2016 team (prior to Holbrooks arrival).
Jury may still be out on Wolf in some ways but he certainly is a decent coach, whilst I have my reservations about Lam which I've said many times,

But French/Budgie/Marshall/Hardaker/Gildart/Manfredi/hastings/Bullock/Singleton (bit early to call but hed be in the frame) Powell/Havard/Farrell Would all be in the frame.

Now obviously they wouldn't all get in, but out of 19 I would say 7/8, out of 17 I would say 6 or so would get in easily.

Your point about Walmesley is a good one
We have a chance tonight to play against you without possibly your most important go forward option. I believe you have enough in the best of your squad to cover for that and still probably commit on top, but it does even things a bit.

From a Wigan perspective that's not good enough, we need to be food enough when your at your best including Walmesley, like we were in 2015/16/17/18
Saints have improved 30/40% since then, and most of that is coaching not players, I believe were at least 20% down on that and I believe it's 50% the same reason although I think our dip is in conjunction with the ageing of 4/5 players and then loss of Tomkins/George etc.

I used to say that you got a lot of Saints fans on here posting when Saints were winning everything, and it was because you were winning, not because you knew more than us.
Its similar now, but also the attitude that were winning so everything about Saints including its players must be better.
It doesnt

Amor
v Leeds 24 tackles, 9 carries for 79 yards
v Wakefield 21 tackles, 12 carries for 85 yards

Singleton
v Salford 25 tackles, 13 carries for 70 yards
v Wire, 26 tackles, 13 carries for 94 yards

Not a lot in it but by the numbers he's been a little better. Bear in mind that Wire game was close as well whereas Amor's two were batterings. I don't know about how long each was on the field for though. We've been really poor for props so he's really stood out in his first two performances. Whether that's a short term effort to impress at a new club or whether it will improve further as he settles in we shall see.

I didn't post about how many players would get in our squad so not sure where you are going with that. Just makes me laugh that Singleton is now in a combined team having played two games for the club, one against a post-Wembley Salford on the back of a long break for Wigan

It's just the incredibly short time horizon that makes me laugh - 2 games and now he's in a combined Saints/Wigan 17!

Out of interest where do you get the individual game stats from? I can never seem to find those.

Yeah I suppose. The Super League site, go to results, select the game, scroll right the way down.

How many games do you have to have played to qualify for a combined side?

Fab, thank you!

You would have Naiqama over Hardaker? Even as a Saints fan I find that surprising.

Depends who you are. If you are Brad Singleton and are trying to get a place ahead of LMS/Amor, probably about 374 million.

I don't think Hardaker is a particularly good centre (I'm still of the opinion he has landed in the solid rather than special category he once occupied) but Naiqama is also pretty average. I'd go with Hardaker.

The best centre combo would clearly be Percival/Gildart if fit.

I think Powell has outplayed Roby and I don’t think those stats say he hasn’t tbh. Roby well ahead in some and Powell well ahead in others. They’re totally different styles of hooker and as you say a combined side would probably be better balanced by starting Powell and bringing Roby off the bench then the other way round.

As for Lees we’re talking about picking a side now and for me he doesn’t get in it ahead of Bullock without any shadow of a doubt and I’d probably pick guys like Singleton, Amor and Partington above him as well. Long term he’ll bounce back I’m sure but in current form he can’t get in IMO.

He had a career before he came to Wigan would you believe.

And it’s a bit rich questioning our standard of fixtures considering Saints haven’t played a team even close to full strength since Mid September. You’ve basically had 4 byes, which would’ve been 5 had you not rested players against Salford.

I don’t get this combined team malarkey to be honest. Each selection is subjective and biased no matter how you try and spin it. We can introduce stats all day long to suit an argument

I agree and realistically it’s just come about because ‘one of those type of Saints fans’ said we’d get 3 players in.

Each fan will have their favourites, their bias but that’s just a bloke on a wind up. Examples of how difficult it is to judge who you should pick in a combined team comes about in the prop department. You’ve got Saints fans picking Lees, Amor etc but they get to play on the back of a spell where one of the Worlds best props has been smashing defences apart. In comparison you have somebody like Bullock, who is quite inexperienced in superleague and is having to try and set a tone whilst more experienced and highly expensive props sit on the sidelines. He doesn’t have the luxury of having Walmsley batter people about before he comes on.

I think Bullock has been outstanding recently and, in the absence of Walmsley, it wouldn't surprise me if he's comfortably the best prop on the field tonight.

I’ve been really pleased with how he’s come on this year. He looked really raw last year and a bit heavy but he’s fitter now and seems to be getting to grips with things. He’s been put in a tough situation at points as well with him being our most senior prop available some weeks due to the absences of Clubb, Burgess and Flower but he’s handled it pretty well. He along with guys like Partington and Byrne have had the complete opposite conditions to play in compared to somebody like Lees. That lad has had a career of playing on the back of Walmsley, Thompson and lately Graham and also alongside experienced guys like Amor and LMS and still isn’t breaking any pots. It absolutely confirms how it’s so difficult to pick a combined team.

It is impossible really and why I didn't join in as, no matter who you pick, someone will disagree. FTV was laughing at Singleton's inclusion (fair enough based on time at the club) but then mentions Amor and LMS. Let's see how both of those go tonight without Walmsley to play off. Bullock so far this season has been head and shoulders above the pair of them.

Even stranger is that he thinks first choice GB centre, Gildart, wouldn't get in either!

Not sure on your definition of “breaking pots” but wasn’t Lees the Super League young player of the year for 2019?

As I’ve said previously he’s not kicked on this year from last but I put that down to his injury. At 22, there’s not a prop at Wigan I would personally swap him for, bar maybe Havard.

We’re talking picking a team for now not last year. He hasn’t had a good season IMO and that’s playing with a number of advantages his rivals at Wigan don’t get.

I’m sure he’ll kick on again but at the minute he’s reasonably average for me.

I understand your point regarding possible potential and age but Bullock, Partington and Harvard have all been considerably better this year.

If Singleton hadn't moved from Toronto to Wigan nobody on this board would have said he was a better player than LMS or Amor. 2 games in cherry and white and it's combined team time.

But he does now play for Wigan.

I doubt we’ll be debating anytime soon if Kyle Amor is better than Gil Dudson or if LMS is better than George Lawler.

There’s a reason behind that.