I’d push ISA in the duggie along with a few more.

2021 I think. That should realistically be the end of him.

Great guy, useful utility but definitely not a starter for a team that wants to win trophies imo.

I would like to see him stick around the club tho. He'd be great managing our U16s or something - a real role model for kids looking to make it in the game.

Except in 2016 when he was a starter in a team that won the Grand Final.

Well done for being a smart ar$e, bu helping prove my point...

He started because Joel was injured and SOL was coming back from an injury too.

Like I said he's a useful utility/squad player.

He started 29 games that season.

Because Faz was injured. He was dropped as soon as he got back - useful squad player.

I'm not 100% sure what you're getting at with this? He started when we had injures and then was moved about when people came back.

Are you saying he was anything other than that?

We played 36 games and Isa was included in 30 of them.

In 2017 when we made the cup final he played 33 of 35.

In 2018 whilst he missed the final (injured IIRC) he was again involved in 30 games.

In most of these he will have done 80 minutes. Whilst he may not be a superstar who are we replacing him with for similar money bearing in mind it isn't the early 90s when despite being told we have no money, the work on the new stand has gone well over budget but we still bought a player for £500k.

I'm not doubting the numbers he played, so feel free to keep counting them.

The fact that you keep (conveniently) skirting over is that in each of those seasons he wasn't a starter through choice. The backrow was Faz, Bateman and Lockers - each of which had injury issues and is why Isa played so much. You know that, as does everyone else. If Faz doesn't miss 13+ games in 2016 it's 13 games less that Isa starts. That's proven by Isa being dropped or moved to accommodate him when he's back. Or are you saying different?

Not sure why you've brought the 90s into this? We've signed Smithies to a long term contract & are bringing Bateman back. That's enough to cover Isa, so that when his contract runs out next season he won't be needed.

Well you seem to think we can sign who we want.

If he isn't starting he's on the bench when those 3 are available. He isn't available in 95% of our games because of injuries he's included because he's a valuable member of the squad despite not being Boyd Cordner, who of course, as Wigan we should be signing.

So what you've literally just said is "he's a valuable member of the squad"... So in other words a useful squad player...

Thanks for agreeing with me.

Also I don't want Cordner - Bateman is better

If you want to twist a regular member of the 17 for the past 5 seasons (and usually a starter) into a squad player then you do that.

So having 4 forwards around him +2 stone heavier doesn’t count for jack Shiite then
Bateman added to our current squad for me adds very little if anything without some better props. If we are the top SL team we can’t have Farrell and Bateman in the second row
I don’t care for middles I want props who can do at least 60 minutes and aren’t pumped up centres

We'll have the best back row in the league next year. Yes we need better props but I don't know why that means you shouldn't have top players in other positions. I'd be going with Havard at loose next year to beef us up a bit.

What with 2 or maybe 3 13 stone back rowers?

What on earth has Havard demonstrated to even suggest he can play 13?
He’s a prop. A decent prospect but never a 13 in the memory of man
Oh I forgot he’s a middle. Sorry Grimmy but that’s total Shoite

Loose forward is pretty much the same position as prop these days for a lot of teams. Why do you think we see Thompson, Graham, Cuthbertson, LMS all run out at loose? The game has moved on from the days when the Loose Forward was more of a third halfback. You do realise Havard has already played three games for us at loose this year, with Partington playing another three?

It’s part of the reason why the game has gone backwards
You can have Havard at 13 I’ll have SOL or Andy Farrell it god forbid Hanley
Havard is a prop
Havard has never been nor ever will be a 13. This middle shoite is just an excuse for poor and lazy coaches
LMS as a 13??????? A nobody who good luck to the lad had made a living out of the game

Alright let's sign Ellery Hanley in his prime then. I forgot that was an option, a great point well made.

I’ll Let you keep middles and I will keep props, second rowers and a loose forward
Middles are for lazy coaches and coaches with no faith in their players
It’s a game of 13 individuals
In your future there won’t be any Andy Farrell’s
That’s the primise of my argument
The game is simple
It’s 13 individuals versus 13 where a guy needs his teammates when he can’t cope
It needs specialists in their areas to make this happen

The top props in the NRL average over 150 m per game, in a much tougher comp. Jason Taumalolo (admittedly, a freak) averages over 200! And in a relatively poor side, too, who did not make the top eight.I find it hard to understand why we can't find props who will do similar in SL.

Those top props, of course, include the un-crocked Burgess that Souths wisely kept.

Trying to think of how French can get his hands on the ball more I did think of putting him at 13 with zak at 1. I prefer a ball playing 13 like you, but with our pack as light as it is we ideally need a 3rd prop there otherwise we'll get bullied even more.

They are all lazy sods who think they are all ball-playing 13s.

I think all but 2 of our 'props' have been played at 13 and they all suddenly think they are Sean O'Loughlin.

Very good but we don't have an Andy Farrell, and I don't think there are many (if any) players of that mould in the game now, it's moved on by requiring all forwards to have an element of ball handling to their game, and the loose having to take on more of the workload making the hard yards. It's not exciting but it's effective.

Realistically your options at loose next year are:

- Bateman, Farrell, Smithies - none of which are the ball player you want, and they're not going to help our size problem
- A player you would consider a prop - my suggestion because it helps make up for our lack of size
- A non-marquee signing - I can't think of anyone in the mould you are looking for, particularly not a player who wouldn't be a marquee

To be fair, they calculate meters gained differently in the NRL. They calculate it from where the ball carrier gets the ball, where as we only count meters gained, I think. Post contact meters is probably a better barometer for judging go forward when it comes to NRL forwards.

We don't have an Andy Farrell because the game sees a ball playing forward as a luxury versus a middle and it's easier to coach a "middle"
How about Pearce-Paul for the future?
How about this season trying Hastings there?