No I didn't know he played. Thanks for that. The last info upon selection was on Friday evening when media reported he would be rested not risked on the astro.

Well that is a whole bigger beast. It looks really grim atm then.

O'Loughlin is fine, hes not been the problem first 5 games.

George needs to be cut some slack. There is far too much pressure on him to do too much. Put a good 7 next to him and then if he does not improve, i would move him to 9 and bring in a new 6 as well as new 7 and scrap the new 9.

He is paid to produce, he isnt doing. Simples

As our marquee player, he’s running out of places to hide now. He needs this, he needs that but his one good game every 6 games isn’t worth the hassle of building a team around him.

No half back in the world can produce unless he has some running threats around him.

How much he is paid is irrelevant if everything goes through him and those around him are not up to the task.

Put Williams in the Saints team and he would be a different player

Not so much running threats around him...as a dominant pack in front of him.

150 game veteran now he’s run out of goodwill from more than a few fans that’s for sure

Ultimately both Williams and Hardaker needed the club to get the scrum half signing right and we pulled out a player only lower end championship and league one clubs were looking at.

Yes they both should be doing more but with no replacement for Bateman being signed, a couple of other forwards struggling and a cheap panic signing at scrum half it’s not hugely surprising. I do think the end of the road is close for Williams. He was apparently livid not to be allowed to move to the NRL last year and his career is stagnating. He’s a fine player but he looks like he needs a change of scene and the huge challenge the NRL would bring.

He only resigned in 2017/18 didn't he? I think IL would not be happy to grant an early release so soon. IL is business shrewd even if tight....he'd more likely wait until there is a season left on contract and get a fee, would he not?

This.

He’s on an awful lot of money. He either produces at 6 or can swan off to Aus (along with Burgess, for me, who also wants to go) and no doubt be back in 2 years playing for Leeds or someone else’s. If Sam didn’t rip up trees, then GW won’t have a chance.

As for moving him to 9, he isn’t a marquee 9 so sod that. We can’t pay him stupid money to play at 9 when we could likely have someone for half the money who does a similar job.

I’m bored rigid of the defence of GW. Like the above says, he probably averages a decent game in 6 (usually when we’re on Sky - go figure?!!) and that’s not good enough for Wigan.
Get his bags packed and make some money off him.

I do actually think the coach is currently the main issue.

I feel he's misjudged how structured we were in attack and gone to another extreme, which has caused chaos with the attack. The proof is in the play; no one knows what they're doing in attack, you can see this clearly with the lines the players are running and how the half backs are operating. I honestly feel only subtle changes needed to be made to allow the halves more creative freedom in the right positions of the pitch.
However, I think Wane knew his players, and exactly what was needed, last season our main creative spark was Sam Tomkins, Wane knew he didn't had a 6 and or 7 who had the organisational skills and creative brain to run the show. So Wane had the team very well organised, some say structured, but look how we played, we had a left pivot and a right pivot, with Tomkins linking up as a second pivot out wide to create.

This worked.

We don't have the halves to play a creative game led by the halves. Samutt, albeit a livewire isn't the man for the job. Williams at times can be, but at times is a headless chicken.

for me we now have 2 options.

1) revert to a more structured game
2) invest in quality in the right parts of the pitch.

What do I believe we need?

Leaders in the right positions.

Investment into a top half. James Maloney is talking up a move to SL, put him on marquee, he's perfect to control the team, get the most out of Williams and Hardaker.
As much as I've defended Powell; I'd honestly like to free up space offloading Sammut, Powell and Tommy. I know about contracts etc, but I feel it's about time we had a scooting dynamic 9, or even try George as a 9.
We also need a pack leader, I know we have Lockers, but have you ever seen him lay the law down? We need that fight.

a controlling half will lead, giving the centres and back row direction. a pack leader with see we're in the fight.

Time IL and KR realised said players aren't currently in our team.

The problem with the argument that Williams should be allowed to go and fulfill his dreams in Aus doesn't help our situation one bit. How do we stem this floodtide of players wanting to leave if we don't demand prohibitive transfer fees?

George's career is stagnating because he's not focussing and not trying, not because he's at Wigan.

The lad is two years into a four-year contract, which he willingly signed. He should therefore act like a real pro and see it through ... and if he sulks, he should be dropped. I hear the argument that there's no one else, but we might as well have had no one at 6 yesterday.

This is a mess, but I don't see how massaging the super-egos of underachieving prima-donnas will turn things around.

I highly doubt he is sulking. Where does this allegation come from, off here? The fact his defence is still rock solid and he is willing to make try saving tackles on bigger men tells me that he is not approaching games half hearted. If that were the case his defence would also be lacking and it isnt.

The problem is not Williams as ive said time and time again. Its those around him that are not running the right lines. If you watch any top coach explain an attacking move, they always point out the importance of the runners taking a step to the left or right, a lead runner or a player changing direction at the last minute. Its all about player movement. We very rarely have anything but a straight attacking line with the fullback out the back. Its all too telepathic and easy for the defence to read. People then blame Williams because he cant 'magic' a pass to a player in space.

I stopped taking you seriously when you had Burgess, Manfredi, Greenwood, Farrell, Hamlin and Gildart on the OUT list. Talk about OTT hysteria

What part of [i[uOne of Marshall/Davies/Burgess or Manfredi. We do not need 4 first choice wingers.
Farrell or Greenwood - Take your pick, we cant have two second rows on big money that can only play down the left.[/u[/i do you not understand?



Gildart is too small and thats my opinion and Hamlin seems to have no position in which he looks likely to ever nail down as his own.

No but we need back up wingers that are up to it.
Farrell is a superb player, Greenwood is a superb player. They can both play on the same pitch at the same time. Why on earth do you want to get rid of one of them? Because ones adjusting to playing on the right and not off GW? Come off it man.

We have such a production line though, sorry to have 4 basically first choice wingers in the squad is a luxury, one sadly needs to be sacrificed

Correct, 4 first choice wingers is ridiculous. Id even stretch to losing 2 of them if it meant we could bring in more quality in other positions. Most other teams only have 2 first choice wingers and rely on others filling in in the event of injury.

They are both left sided players. Not all players can pass to the right accurately and ive seen nothing to suggest Farrell can. Even his running looks awkward on the right. I like Farrell and i like Greenwood but just because they are both good players does not mean they can fit into the same system.

When were all four available though? How many would you get rid of and which one(s)?

I would sacrifice either Davies or Marshall,in this salary cap era no club can afford to have 4 first choice on their books, not when a club produces them so often as Wigan do, its an embarrassment of riches to be honest.

I'm not sure about an embarrassment of riches. I'd call it the only area on the pitch where we've got decent back-up.

If we're honest, neither Marshal nor Davies are the first-team standard we all want. But they are pretty useful, and isn't that what you need in your back-up staff, especially when your actual first-choicers are injured as often as Manfredi and Burgess are?

Irrelevant, you don’t keep a second car on the drive just in case your first choice breaks down! you find a temporary solution until the problem is fixed. It’s the same here with wingers. As for which ones you would let go, this is down to preference. My choice to let go would be Marshall & Burgess. Why Burgess you ask? Well he left the club once and has made no secret of the fact that he would like to try his luck again in aus so grant him his wish. Marshall unfortunately for him in this group of four is the runt of the litter.

You were doing great with your reasoning on this subject until this!