I think that only applies if they're showing signs of that inexperience. Early days, I grant you, but I didn't see any 'rookie errors' or signs of pressure in either's play on Thursday in what was a high intensity game.

Good to see Lam’s comments about not reverting to type as we did against Saints. It’s clear to see that that performance was reminiscent of last 2/3 years but over next month or so I think we’ll see a steady increase of quality

I agree, its just going to take a little time is all, if say at round 12 or so things are still a bit awry then theres problems but not at the moment.

It's not easy to change something that is embedded. This group has been together a long time, playing a certain way under the same coach. When you're tired you naturally resort to the path of least resistance, which is the thing you're used to. It's going to take patience and some good coaching by Lam, and belief and a lot of effort by the players to change how we play.

Combine that with losing one of our main organisers in Sam, the team has a lot of changes to work at.

This isn't just a Lam thing, the entire setup has to work hard.

I'd pretty much go with the same line-up as we fielded v Saints, apart from one change; Escare for Isa. Escare is a game breaker, at times this sort of player is valuable in a tight game, coming on running rings around tired legs.

We're a team who have a new coach with new structures and attacking patterns. They need time together to gel and play the way Lam wants us to play, for this, keep it as it is.

Same team for me with Tautai or Byrne replacing Navarrette.

When have escare ever ran rings around anyone in a wigan shirt?

He even did in the GF.

Is Manfredi another serious injury, or due back soon?

I think.. potentially back for the WCC. But perhaps the week after.

He’s 2-5 weeks according to Lam yesterday. At the very best he’ll be back for the Roosters but he said it’s unlikely.

It doesn’t sound serious, just a clean out of the knee to remove some floating bone. It’s always going to be nervy with Manfredi though.

+1

Hopefully back sooner rather than later had some rotten luck with injuries. Him being in my sl dream too makes me want him back fast too lol 85k Is a bargain and his trys will make up for his time on bench!! Hopefully not against us tho lol

I have to agree - I've said it before and I'll say it again, I don't understand people's obsession with Escare. He's fine, but he wouldn't get into another of the top teams. And he isn't in the same league as Hardaker in attack or defence.

I don't think he is as good as Zak in attack or defence. But looking at our options for bench spots I see the value in having a back on the bench. Especially someone with pace and quick feet, how can use his footwork and ability to break defences.

The trick is not to compare him to Zak or Tomkins before him, but see what he can offer our team. And obsession? Slow down.

Apologies if my post made it seem like I was aiming at you, I wasn't. I was referring to the people on the Wigan Facebook page constantly moaning about why Escare isn't playing.

The problem I see with Escare on the bench is where do we play him? Before this season we could move Tomkins into the halves to accomodate Escare coming on, but this season Hardaker isnt a half back. Added to the fact that Hardaker is more than capable of playing the 80 at fullback - and I definitely wouldn't want to make him less influential by moving him into the centres just to fit Escare in somewhere.

I think Escare is good cover for injury, but nothing more. And when Sammut's ban is over I can see us starting games with Sammut at 7 and Tommy/Powell on the bench.

Have to agree,hes good for cover and now quite where he fits in is anyones guess, the way some go on about him though is a little over the top I feel.

I'm pretty much with LSOW on Escaré, I do think he is of value to the squad. Push comes to shove, we could take off a centre to accommodate him in the last twenty.

I don't see it as a matter of accommodating Escare, but having a back on the bench who can also cover 9 is value. I don't think Escare should be billed as a FB anymore, but more of a utility player. A player who can cover 1,2,5,6,7,9 and not let the side down has value. Plus with his quick feet and pace he can and will cause issues, namely around the ruck with a QPTB. He can and has broken defences open and can offer a spark from off the bench when running at tired legs.

Escare isn't good enough to challenge Hardaker to be a starting fb, to be honest, for me, and this is including Tomkins, Zak could be the best all-round fb in the SL. His defence is outstanding, he's broken field running is also outstanding, when he beds in and learns where and when to chime in the line he'll be a MOS level player again.

When I look at other options on the bench I see forwards and perhaps Sammut, who for me, has still to prove himself and fight his way into our 17.

You could argue tonight would have proved this point of view when Sarge did not return for the second half but it was Isa who came on. Now Isa can cover second row, 13 and centre and given he does you have to choose which is the better utility player? Is two props, Isa and Escare better then three props and either one of those two?

I think we will see Isa on the bench more often then Escare because he's going to go to 13 when Lockers inevitably comes off.




If he'd not got banned he'd have started both games IMO. The only thing that will (or should) keep Powell in the 17 is if TL just can't do the minutes anymore.

I think you'd be arguing in purely hypotheticals to be honest. Isa covered centre, but who knows what would have happened if Escare would have been on the bench. Who knows what would have happened if another player was injured. It's all hypothetical. My belief that Escare adds something to our team starting from the bench remains.
Isa to 13? No, that would be Hamlin, who's always been a middle.

Sammut starting both games? Possibly yes, which for me is madness. Roll back several months when he was at London and we were going unbeaten in the playoffs and then won the GF with Williams and Tommy. Who then in their right mind would have suggested Sammut should/would replace anyone in our 17.

To get Escare on to the bench we’d need to get Tony Clubb fitter or leave him out looking at last night. He looked knackered after 5 minutes of both his spells and if we’re to then bring Escare in for another forward like Navarette or Isa we’d need to see a real increase in minutes from the other forwards. I think Clubb did a total of around 20-25 mins last night which isn’t enough from a senior forward.

I do seem to recall Clubb taking a few weeks to get going in other seasons, so hopefully it’s just a case of finding his match fitness.

Honestly think Clubb is past it.

As I recall, you were amongst many of us who were very critical of our halves and their lack of creativity throughout last season and agreed with me that we needed to prioritise signing a scrum half. We improved when we switched TL and Powell for the Super 8s but I’d still argue that TL is better as a 9 than a 7 and he’s definitely a better 9 than Powell.
We brought in a scrum half, albeit not one we might have wanted but we have to try him. I’d say Sammut and Williams need to be given 8 to 10 games together to see how they go and TL goes to 9. If he can do 80 mins, great and if not, Powell should have a bench spot. By no means a scapegoat but Powell should not be in the 17 if everyone is available.

I thought he had a really good season last year in fairness but this new interchange set up and the various ways of speeding the game up will test forwards in different ways. So far we’ve seen mobile, fit forwards like Flower and Bullock thrive but Clubb struggled.