it is a conundrum that an out of date system works well enough to hold a team to 2nd in the league with all the points etc which logically suggests that we don't need a radical change in the coaching staff but just an effective attacking coach who makes training enjoyable and sets realistic targets. It is very reminiscent of Mourinho at Old Trafford.

The first two thirds of the season I was pleasantly surprised at how good we looked, neck & neck with Saints and scoring an average rate of five tries a game playing good attacking rugby.

A combination of the Sam Tomkins departure announcement, Shaun Wane (out of the blue) announcement, the Tomkins video and more importantly the ever increasing injury list has put a spanner in the works.

Prior to the Wire Challenge Cup game we were flying.

Will be difficult to get that back in such a short space of time, especially as some of our injuries are long term.

This quote from Wane after Thursday.

"They got stuck into each other, there were injured bodies and blood everywhere, which is a great sign."

could you tell me please if any other team could give saints a game with so many key players out. also 4 players took the field who should not have done. they put there hand up to play. sw lost the dressing room in your dreams.

I said at the beginning of the season that will win nowt yet again!!

3 Major trophies out of 14 available in 7 years is a terrible return for the money spent and the resources at the club!!

Waney has failed and is still failing, he should have gone ages ago, Powell at number 7









What a joke.

I have no doubt you have been in the dressing room before a game.

In fact, you have to be don't you? Shaun.

powell could hardly walk never mind run yet still put his hand up because there was no one else. he has been carrying an injury for weeks. i think you will find when george is back he will get a rest. it should be woods that gets ditched he is not sl standard and never will be.

The half backs are looking poor as our forwards are being dominated by the opposition packs. They are losing the forward battle most weeks now.
FPN wasn't replaced, Sutton is injured and Tautai is bang out of form and Clubb must be playing injured as he cops a knock every game. That's where the first of our problems start and our other difficulties stem from there.
Half backs haven't a chance if the pack is being overpowered.

You know when you know someone hasn't got a relevant point to make? They just accuse the person they're arguing with of being someone linked to the argument in question.

Already made my point sunshine.

3 Major domestic trophies out of 14 available with the best funded and resourced club in a poor league.

HTH

It’s easy to use pointless stats to prove any argument.

Wane has been great.
Won 67% of all games played
5 successive grand finals
League leaders shield winner
3 Challenge cup finals
World champions

It’s about context. In context it’s the right time for him to go and we definitely need new ideas to freshen things up but he’s been brilliant for our club and leaves with my very best wishes.

Andy is a very well informed guy, if he says it I believe it, he calls it how it is, he isnt a happy clapper or have cherry tinted glasses on trust me.

I never said I'd been in the changing room before a game.
Typical example of one of the experts/critics interpreting something into what they want without actually relaying facts.

I know numerous people who have been and still are in the changing room before/half time/after games. All of them speak highly of wane and say he's much calmer than say a Madge ever was.

As for stats.
He hasn't finished his 7th season so far.

In 12 prior to this season he's made 6
50% of finals!

He's won 3(50%).
I think the last one is a poor return as he probably should have had 5 and possibly all 6.

Add to that a WCC I wouldn't say that's a bad return.
Could have been better, but not bad.

Time to move on.

Is 3 trophies in 7 years actually that bad though? I don’t just mean for Wigan, I mean a club in general. No club is going to win a trophy every season. Especially with the rise of Cas, Hull and Warrington in recent years to add to Saints, Wigan and Leeds all fighting it out for the trophies.

Whilst Wigan are well resourced compared to some clubs you can still only spend the same amount on players as any other club. Wigan are also not the best funded club, that’s Leeds by quite a distance, and I would imagine Wigan’s finances are comparable to Warrington and Saints and possibly now Hull’s.

3 out of 14 is poor for a club that paid its players more than any other club over this period.

Worry about Leeds mate, Lenners has put more into Wigan than your chairman / face of the club, i wonder if Caddick has had enough.

Ok, if we are using all comps, we have.

Madge

Won-League leaders, Grand Final, Challenge Cup over two seasons, 3 wins out of 6 available.

Waney

Won-League Leaders, 2 x Grand Final, Challenge Cup, 4 Wins out of 21 available.

Madge 50% record at Wigan winning cups.

Waney approx 19% cup winning record.


Madge won the first two after only signing Deacon, who was heading to retirement.

Anyone can use stats to try to prove their point, but the point of any pro sport is to be the best and win the comps their in.

If the best-paid squad in the comp is way off then there a big problem.

Funny how no teams came knocking his door down once he made the very selfish decision to publicly announce his departure.

Backroom coach at Scotland RU was all he could get, looks like he had a higher opinion of himself than other did.

Ziggy, You’ve obviously got a massive chip on your shoulder when it comes to Wane. It’s also that kind of arrogance when it comes to winning trophey’s that draws a lot of negative attention towards the club.

Over the last 6 years (the 7th hasn’t finished yet) the team have picked up 3 out of 12 domestic Trophey’s. During that period Leeds, St Helens, Warrington, Hull and more recently Castleford would have been also hoping to pick up Trophey’s. In comparison to others 3 isn’t a bad return.

As for resources, we may spend a little more on wages due to home grown allowances but that’s not significant, Leeds and Warrington are certainly better resourced than us, Hull possibly are too. IL makes a massive contribution but not at the levels of Moran at Wire for example.

I think you and some others need to leave the late 80’s, early 90’s behind and start living in 2018.

All this negativity is really getting tiresome.

I’m not sure how Wigan has paid its players more than everyone else though? Everyone else bar a couple of the smaller clubs maybe are paying their players the same as Wigan. I’d say 3 in 7 years isn’t really that bad at all considering how the competition has tightened at the top.

I don’t need to worry about Leeds. My club, despite having a poor season on the pitch, is forging its future for the next 30-40 years. I’m happy with my club, and I’d happily take 3 trophies in 7 years.
I don’t know how Lenagan has personally put in but the fact he’s putting money in at all shows that Wigan aren’t the best resources or financed club when Leeds have roughly double the income without Caddick putting anything in.

[code[/code

Maybe but the loss of 3-4,000 fans from our gate figures does not happen by accident. Off field incidents, the huge disparity between our good performances and our bad ones throughout the year, dull and predictable rugby, feedback from players of dissatisfaction in the camp. It all adds up.

So you agree, that's not Wanes only instruction?
As for attendances I agree to a certain extent, but I also believe there is an apathy about the game as a whole. Just over 5K at Cas on Friday when they could have gone 2nd. Saints, who have been playing some really good rugby, attendances are only slightly up on last season, but that is due to the Good Friday factor.

There’s a whole host of reasons the attendances are down. The main two for us are ridiculous kick off days/times and more importantly just the competition as a whole feels second rate nowadays. We’re the Scottish premiership to the English premiership when it comes to comparing us against the NRL. If a whole heap of money came in to the game tomorrow and all the Burgess boys, Graham, Widdop, Whitehead etc came back and we started getting the top Kiwi international we used to as well as the odd Australian representative player our attendances would shoot through the roof.

Wane can be blamed for certain things but attendances aren’t really one of them. We’d get ‘slightly’ better crowds if the rugby was a bit more exciting but it would hardly be noticeable.

Probably having the biggest wage bill in the league for the past few years and two marquee players would probably give it away.

Resourced by the fact we have the best youth system and biggest wage bill.

I look at Leeds today and think you must have quite a low wage bill. The only player anywhere near Marquee is Watkins, you've replaced Hall with Briscoe, and your pack is terrible.

If you're happy with that then good on yer.

No chip on my shoulder regarding Wane just saddened to see the culture Maguire created at the club being eroded over the years by Noble's boy's club mentality returning.

Biggest wage bill in SL over the past few years with two Marquee players would suggest we are the best-resourced team in the league.

Warrington better resourced..









A team full of Wigan rejects and Wigan area players, come on, even you don't believe that.

Saints have won 2 in the last 7 years going through a massive transition, and that will be 3 already as they have the LLS wrapped up, and if they win the GF 4.

Warrington has 2.

Leeds have 6, double the amount of Wigan.

Cas have 1.

Yes, I grew up through the 80s and 90s watching Wigan but had the same feeling in 2010 when Maguire came in and turned the team into a well oiled winning machine.

I also supported Lenners decision to appoint Wane and it looked like a good smart move, but over the years the gloss has come off, the team has lost it edge and direction.

Wane should have gone a while back and that is my only criticism of Lenners.

You've randomly started counting LLS as major trophies when your original point (and Wigan total) was based on the Challenge Cup and Super League winners only.

Going back to your original point of the [u12[/u major trophies available during Wane's tenure then numbers for each club are as follows:

Leeds 5
Wigan 3
Hull 2
Warrington 1
St Helens 1

You can't seriously be trying to use that data as a reason to criticise Wane's performance?

Actually, someone further up the thread starting counting them which is why I started to use them also, I didn't use them originally, but if I had it would have made Waneys record even worse.