Parcell was the key addition I was referring too, the improvement in their play is obvious a full pre-season on working on what was needed. I have always rated McDermott and believe the key difference between him and Wane is that he accepted his job was on the line and knew he needed to change things.

I would have Eden over Burgess any day of the week....yes! Castleford also recruited Sene Lefao and Hardacre and as a team they have improved significantly tactically and defensively.

Your missing my point, we recruited poorly in the off season, if you disagree, then cool. I feel we have given new contracts to players that aren't really top-notch or can really potentially improve whereas the teams around us have. Tactically and defensively we have slipped, massively, that you cannot argue with. We have no real threat on the final plays in & around the opponents try line and our kicking game is shocking!

Eden over Burgess any day of the week?



It's all about opinions but that comment is a clear indication that your opinion isn't worth a carrot! However, I'll humour you.

We recruited Leuluai- a huge improvement on Smith and Burgess - a great addition to the squad having seen Sagrinson leave.

Our half back options have simply been limited because Shorrocks has not been available and Powell has had to cover for MM. If Escare was fit we'd have the option to try Sam in the halves but he's not.

When Leuluai was rumoured to be going to Saints there was real discontent on here that we could allow that to happen. As I've said earlier, Leuluai was really leading us around the pitch in the early part of the season and that allowed Williams to cause havoc. We'll click and when we do I'm sure we'll put a lot of egg on a lot of faces, probably including yours!

Stick Burgess in the Cas team and he'd have scored just as many as Eden, if not more. He's a far better around player.

I actually bloody wrote that!!!!! Then deleted it....your bang on. I was trying to say that as we play so one dimensional, it wouldn't matter if Eden was on the wing.

I prefer Eden to Burgess, but that's my preference. Your is obviously budgie so fair play. No arguments here and my opinion, albeit carrot worthy, is still just that



Wasn't aware of the rumours regards TL and saints so can't comment. I personally wouldnt of kicked up a fuss if he had. I pray for this "click" you mention, and as and when it does happen, I will be sure to post an apologetic, egg-faced, POSITIVE post

its all about opinion Ritchie. if we all thought the same it would be a much poorer place.
For what it is worth on the whole I agree with most of what you say but Eden better than Burgess?????

I quite admire Bigreds stoicism but I've just got completely bored with the style of rugby and the sheer lack of atmosphere at all matches. Declining attendances dont lie and even if we win the CC without some new blood on the playing front and some fresh coaching input (would be happy with new assistant for SW) then crowds will continue to decline.

I'm not saying everything in the garden is rosy mate because clearly it isn't. But equally, I don't think all the doom and gloom is justified. I'd never class myself as a happy clapper and I'm prepared to be critical when it's justified. The performances this season on the whole have been miles off and I'd hope for a significant improvement for the rest of this season.

A full preseason for our full squad would be beneficial. Sam, Joel, Tommy, Lockers, Manfredi, McIllorum all missed the last preseason and the injury situation is well documented. I'm a firm believer that you can't build a house on sand. We need a solid base to start from next season and if we get it, along with better luck with injuries then we'll not be far off.

The powers that be have achieved equality at the expense of quality. Anybody can beat anybody in this truly mediocre competition. Seriously, I get more enjoyment watching my grandson play U7s.

Totally agree. Salary cap has brought parity to the competition but has brought the level of the top clubs down rather than bringing the overall standard of the league up.

I wouldn't call anyone a happy clapper irrespective of their view(s). Each to their own

Unlike yourself I don't think we have a top quality squad. Of the above SOL albeit a great player his best days are behind him and he has been "nursed through" the past 3 seasons. TL - ready for the coaching role. MM seems incapable of playing 80 minutes on a regular basis. JT - nowhere near same player before he joined union.
That's 4 players who I would suggest are in the top 6 earners at the club - the other 2 being ST & GW. You can't have that much salary cap tied up in players who are passed it, incapable of playing 80 minutes or your never sure when they will be available. I want my best players on the field for 80 minutes and excluding long term injuries on the field each and every week.

We have got some fantastic players Farrell, Gildart, Williams, Bateman (would be better if he could pass to his right), Davies, Sam, Burgess, Escare (was a breath of fresh air) and TT. For me these are the foundations that you refer to but not some of the players who missed a preseason. I also hope young Wells can kick on - really like the look of that lad a proper forward.
We are woefully short of props and have been since circa 2012 so it isn't a new issue. We may and I suggest may have found a goal kicker but its taken us years to do this and Williams seems to have happened by accident. Just plain woeful planning and recruitment.

All that being said what really drags my enthusiasm down is how slow we play and sheer lack of intensity at every game. Go back to 2012 and it was the complete opposite. Our style now seems to be slow, slow quick, slow, slow. Mechanical with absolute minimum risk. The club seems totally focused on the CC and don't seem to give a damn about the league with the Warrington & Leeds performances just about summing up the season for me i.e. wasted.
Historically I would have crawled over broken glass to get to a Wembley final this year I just cant be bothered. Perhaps I've caught the bug from the club because they cant be bothered to arrange a coming home ceremony after winning the GF (did I miss it??) or play every game to win. No one and I mean no one can convince me our players wanted to win against Wire at home or Leeds away the other week. I can accept and fully expect losses but when we turn in regular performances of absolute rank proportions then enough is enough.

I don't really know what a middle is - I think it's a small prop who cant take the ball in or do more than 20 minutes (by the clock) but no one has ever been able to tell me what one is. All that I know is that our squad is full of them. As for the wrestling well its wrestled my love of rugby out of me.

I sincerely hope that you are right and that I'm wrong but after the last 3 years of incredibly low standards on and off the park I'm going to take a break after 50 years. I said the same this time last year but in the end I couldn't resist and bought my season ticket as usual. I wont however be doing the same for next year unless there is some new blood on the playing front and some changes in the coaching. I like SW but he needs to change his backup team or stand aside.
Its either stop going or carry on complaining so unfortunately, I'm going with the former. My rationale is that if enough people do this then IL will be forced to make changes. That to you probably seems odd after winning 2 trophies in the last 3 years however, the quality for me devalues any final appearances if you don't even enjoy watching us in finals with the levels of performance being pretty turgid.

As I said Bigred I hope your right (enjoy your Wembley trip as well by the way) and although I wont be at the ground for the remainder of the season I will always be there in spirit wanting the team to win or least go down with a fighting spirit showing a bit of class. Unfortunately I don't equate fighting spirit and class anymore with Wigan RLFC.

That is spot on. I was infuriated we gave Joel a new contract, he hadn't even shown a glimpse of returning to the player he was prior to leaving us. MM, SOL & TL will easily be amongst the highest earners at the club and it's a struggle to compete when that amount of the cap is struggling to stay fit or perform when fit.

I would love to disagree with Itchy, but unfortunately I can't find much to argue about there.

I will be buying a ST next season (well, I haven't been here five minutes!), but I will be hoping on hope for some change.

Hope your enjoying life in god's little acre

I loved Itchy's description of a "middle". Brought a smile to my face, even if our rugby hasn't more often than not.

Well that was painful viewing

Well we got the win. Defence was an improvement, that's about it I'm afraid.


Burgess needs a week or two in the stands I'm afraid.

Wane Out.
New coach to whip the players into shape.
Then get rid of the dross.

Next!

williams not much better makes so many wrong choices

SW on the win: Quote "Our defence was miles better. You have to remember Huddersfield have been flying, beating teams and scoring lots of points. "They have some great attacking players in their team, so to defend that way was great. They were difficult conditions. Our attack at times was good, the score could have easily been 30 points if Joe Burgess had caught the ball a few times. "It's been a really tough week for everybody and it will be another one this week."'" m.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/40869488

SW on the win: Quote "Our defence was miles better. You have to remember Huddersfield have been flying, beating teams and scoring lots of points. "They have some great attacking players in their team, so to defend that way was great. They were difficult conditions. Our attack at times was good, the score could have easily been 30 points if Joe Burgess had caught the ball a few times. "It's been a really tough week for everybody and it will be another one this week."'" m.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/40869488

How patronising considering you are now agreeing with the "idiots".

The problem with this site is people are afraid to be controversial and have a rant. You included. God knows why. It's only a forum. Thank God Itchy Arsenal hasn't been drummed out.

Thank you, Itchy, I am very much.

Top class post,absolutly spot on.

You must be in your element at the moment.

For the first time in your life, your predictions of disaster look like they might come true.

All we need now is a special bench outside Wembley, where you can sit with Red Hot Jalapeno, and every time there's a groan from the Wigan crowd, you can congratulate each other and say, 'See ... told you.'

Williams got a couple of nasty hits thats why his left thigh was strapped up