Losing isn't the problem it's the utter crap style of play. No variation no spark no skill.
Middles who get changed after 15 minutes after hanging around for most of that time with their finger up their arris. Last night after 14 minutes play in the 2nd half after waiting 4 minutes for the Widnes no try we make substitutions for what?
Just totally fed up of middles and edges.
Last night In the south stand people around me were on their phones, rabbiting on about anything but the game. Two women were debating which is the best chippy in Wigan for god's sake at one point! What is there to debate its in Manor Street!
The style of play it utter total rubbish. MM only plays for 40 minutes and SOL only plays 50% of matches so we can't use that as an excuse. Explain how one injury to a 7 who plays 6 means that our only option is to play a prop or whatever he is.? Please explain this to me JJ?
From 2013 we have been on a decline which some supporters for whatever reason just don't seem to see or except it.

The pain of losing is greater than the joy of winning

Also reserve hooker (Waterworth) injured, reserve halfback (Shorrocks) injured,
Then there is Hampshire who is out on loan (at his own request)

Matty Smith is not good enough, this is a fact.

When we have won trophies with him in the side it is because we have had a good 6 like Blake Green who takes full control. I never rated Green highly but we sure have missed is infulence since he has left. I dont know what is main attribute actually is you go through the important ones for a No 7 and he is poor in the majority of them.

Organisation - Poor
Taking the line on - Poor
Kicking in General Play - Poor
Decision making - Poor
Defence - Poor

There are probably more to this list but these are the reasons why we cant seem to get over the line in the Grand Final IMO

I know it seems that i am making Smith the scape goat in all are problems but I actually think it is more to do with Wane / recruitment....... last night was a example of poor planning / game plan.........why start with Tautai and leave us so down in numbers of the interchange bench. Gregson played 0 minutes, Burke maybe 15 minutes, Sutton maybe 20 minutes Mossop maybe 30 minutes this meant that the middle men had to play long minutes which lead to fatigue in the game (in particular Flower/Clubb) which meant we couldnt make the yards in attack for Smith to put in kicks under less pressure. Plus are outside backs Sarge, Josh, Gels, Gildart, Dom taking too many drives, in particular Sarge so when it came to his full back duties he was knackered and made errors Will Sam be taking that many hit ups? Compare that to Widnes / Hanbury looked fresh and became a deciding factor in the game when he cut open Smith and Gelling.

I mean why select Gregson on the bench then don't put him on......remember this is the guy (Wane) who comes out and says he believes in the young lads so doesn't want to recruit players in who he sees not better than what we have. We all know that Wigan was in for Brett Ferres so we know there is cap available.....but again why did we need another back rower when there is other positions to strength. This leads me to another issue .......Wane was a forward as we all know rough and tough, which is unsurprisingly the way and the only way we play through the forwards / middle rough and tough. This is proven by how bad are attack as become, we are still running the same pattern in attack as when Madge was in charge full back chiming in "the round the back play". Is it a coincidence that our last couple attacking coaches have left the club and Wane as replaced them with his mates (insiders) Deacon and Harris moved on both under a bit of a cloud as we know Wane n Harris dont see eye to eye anymore.

Wane as won trophies and he is a Wiganer through and through i get all that which is great but I dont want to end up like Arsenal for example sticking with a coach and being too stubborn to change.

We have the option to recall Hampshire week by week if we chose too

Didnt they give Amos a 4 year deal too?

Looking these posts got me thinking there are 13 players in a team of rugby not just one that everyone on here is slagging off .......

Yes Matty did not have one of his best games for Wigan and by the end of the game looked mad at himself as he already knew this but the whole Wigan team did not play to the standards everyone expects.

No one can deny that the main pivotal players in the team full back / scrum half / standoff / hooker / loose forward if they play well the team plays well no matter what team they are. If we look at Wigan ATM how many 1st choice players do we have in these positions the answer is 1 and that's at scrum half which it Matty. I have also seen people saying he not played well for the last 2 yrs but then he had a experienced standoff in Blake Green and currently has had Williams ( still learning the game it that position ) Lockers more recently who has already played Prop this season then standoff but not his best position loose forward due to injuries in other positions. As people still say the half's need to gel and play more together but we are only 6 games in and 2 of these he has had a prop / loose forward playing alongside him.

Wigan will only get better as the season goes on so I will look forward to the mass of negative comments Im going to get now from the Anti Matty Smith supports who probably are the same ones as the last year Anti Gelling / Anti Shaun Wane / Anti Tauti / Anti Tomkins or Anti any Wigan player who has a bad game and is not fit to wear the Wigan shirt.

One thing that does baffle me is I understand people are allowed views but some are so anti Wigan / Players why do they still support them if the dont like em so much ?? just a thought.

As a Wakey supporter who has to watch Finn and Miller operate at 6 and 7 I would obviously be on cloud 9 if we had a player as good as Smith, but I have to say, as an outsider looking in, he just isn`t good enough for Wigan, he is and has been a weak link in many excellent Wigan teams. The amazing thing for me is that Wane, who I admire as a coach greatly for his fearless attitude is player young players has Rocky Hampshire on his books. Hampshire for me is the best player of his generation and is already far superior to Smith in all aspects of the game, plus he can kick goals something that Smith is very poor at. Hampshire should have been given his chance to play at 7 two years ago. Apparently Wigan / Wane prevented him from going to Trinity on loan this season, and I understand that decision, where he would have played at 7 every week and set the game alight. Instead Wigan / Wane send him to Cas , again I understand that the Powell, Orr, Sheridan coaching will be good for him, but in order to get a game at 7 Gale needs to loose form or be injured. As it is he has played one game at 6. Wane should recall Hampshire, drop Smith and play Hampshire at 7 every week

Last season Wane was very quick to drop Charnley due to poor performances (quite rightly too). However some players do seem to be immune this, Smith being one. For his own development he should have some young kid chomping at the bit waiting to take his place yet week after week he is one of the first names on the teamsheet regardless of his performances.

Whilst I wouldnt necessarily think SW would chuck Hampshire in against Saints on Good Friday I would like to think he would assess his performance with a view to replacing him on the Easter Monday game.

Smith was naff, not average last night, he was naff but with nothing to keep him on his toes he can continue to be so.

You're only 65 posts old. Hang around long enough & you'll see there are enough swivel-eyed loons on here to open their own club.
Last night wasn't good all round. Missed tackles, last play brain-farts, it had everything. But (and I'm repeating myself, yet again) why is it that we can't kick? Since Richards left, our kicking game is non-existent. Whether it's from the tee, or in play (invariably straight down the throat of whoever we're against).

Smith had a bad game (not his first nor, I expect, his last), but he's not intrinsically a poor player (poor kicker, yes). He took charge last year more often than not when SOL was off, and I rate him as a good all-round squad member. Not a high-flyer, but I'd rather an efficient 13 on the park than a disparate bunch of big-I-ams. Problem is at the moment, we don't seem to have either.

They've now had more than enough time to get out of third gear, if we're not in 6th & cruising on Friday, I fear we might be struggling to catch up come July & end up towards the bottom of the (top) 8.

I think whether Smith is good enough or not is a bit of a side issue to our overriding problems in attack atm. Yes we're missing our first choice 1, 6 and 9 which then means our first choice 13 has to play out of position, which doesn't help, but to me it's our attacking structures and tactical play that is lacking rather than any personnel issues. We were always accused of being "robotic" under Madge and in SW's first couple of years but what we did was highly effective and it was all down to well rehed plays, plenty of option runners and, most importantly, fast, accurate passing. That is what isn't happening at the minute. In every game this year we've had the territory and possession to kill teams off early but we haven't done it, needing late scores to win 3 out of our first 5 matches and then last night it bit us on the backside.

I remover in the dark days under Noble how Barrett performed. At times the tactics and structures that restricted him went out of the window, he took the game by the scruff of the neck and changed games.

Now I'm not for 1 second claiming Smith is in Trent's class but as an international half he should be able to step up and change our tactics when they clearly are not working.

He has to be the senior half and most of the time last year Williams clearly took that role on.

He isn't good enough it is a simple as that.

I don't think Sargy did that bad, when you look at the one he dropped you will see that as he took the ball his right leg slipped back causing him to pitch forward which made him lose the ball.
I thought his general play was ok, all that was lacking was an halfback or forward with the touch to put him through any small gap that may appear, he put himself in position a couple of times but the ball wasn't forthcoming.
This week there as been a lot of talk about Charnley not being the same player the last couple of seasons compared with previous seasons. That could be put down to a lack of confidence if not effort, one of the things that could have caused this is knowing he would be publicly slagged of by the coach if he had a bad match. (also knowing others can get away with it week after week).
Also what is getting to me is the constant chatter "we will be OK when Sam is back", he has been away nearly 3 years.
Sam first injured his Posterior Cruciate ligament on the 23rd of March Last Year, (12 months ago) against Parramatta in the 3rd round of the NRL. He only played in about 14 matches in total last year and this was in fits and starts.
He scored only 1 try all season, so to think everything will be back to normal may be clutching at straws.
I think it may be time for Sam to move to standoff if we find out his speed has diminished a bit.
Remember, Darren Lockyer had his best years when he moved to standoff after an outstanding few years at fullback.

What I would love to see (if Sam proves he his up for it) is the following lineup in the backs ,taken from existing staff.

No 1 Sarginson. 2 Manfredi, 3 Gildart, 4 Gelling,5 Charnley, 6 Sam Tomkins and 7 Williams.
With that line up there would be far more balance and threat from the backs.

Your being too sensible. Gelling is useless but at 3 is even worse.
Wane is in his own world of his own where tough is best and I know best. Anyone who plays Gelling at 3 hasn't got a clue. Smith is just symbolic of the ineptitude.

Wane is a complete and utter buffoon and one who is so stubborn that it could be too late into our season before he realises the errors of his ways

We are a pale imitation of the Wigan side that he inherited and are also devoid of attacking options since Deac's left

It is probably no surprise if there is no longer a distinguished former back (as was the case with Harris and Deacon) in charge of the backs or general attacking play. There are Wane, Matty Peet and John Winder as far as I know involved with the training of the first team squad - none of whom were top class backs!
Contrast the excellence of Widnes last night where the influence of Brett Hodgson is there for everyone to see. Dennis Betts also played under Graham Lowe and John Monie and no doubt learned a lot from them. True, SW was also coached by Lowe - before he got shipped off to Leeds.
Some on here have commented about SW being pig-headed and stubborn. As with so many things in life, a top coach has to be able to be receptive to the ideas of others. One isn't right all the time......

Anyone who thinks the tean will be transformed when sam comes back is dillusional

The same as mr cunningham appears to be given his interview just now.....

The thing is though, we'll be right up there at the end of the year. For all of our faults, we will still waltz into the top 4 comfortably.

Honestly over the course of a season who is going to be better than us?

Stop that now, people are enjoying the misery....

Just been watching Wests Tigers, and their young halves Brooks and Moses out on a wonderful performance in the first half, setting up some great tries with inspired running and kicking. What a pleasure to watch exciting halves at work, they looked like thy could score with every attack!

Hard to argue with that. We have gone backwards in terms of playing and coaching staff. Only probably Bateman and Flower would get in the side of 5 years ago. The salary cap hasn't changed, we now have the marquee player rule and more homegrown players that don't count as much on the cap. How has our quality decreased so rapidly?

Itchy you could be right in, I got my 3 mixed up with my 4, should have been Gildart at 4 Gelling at 3, I did say though the backs I named came from the players available at present.
Not quite as sensible as you think.
But your statement on "Wanes World" makes me think.
Has Wane got 100% control on all thing Football matters and Rads who has far more honours and knowledge of the tactics of free flowing Rugby just employed for Corperate events.

I'm just an owed farwt who wants a centre who can pass, a prop who can break more than wind, a full back who can catch&tackle, a coach who trusts his players, a back that can actually kick, a halfback who knows what HE wants to do and a coach who understands that some positions actually require a modicum of skill.
Oh and any middle whatever that is who can do more than 20 minutes a go.
I won't hold my breath.

Itchy, you should try drinking mild like me, it has a very calming effect

.

It will because this is superleague! Put Tomkins in at full back and Williams at stand off and the side will be a hundred times more dangerous. Is that down to them? Well not totally, it's because the quality of the league is poor and they will get us rolling through teams.

The one thing I would point out from last night is that as a team I think we went ok. At 12-6 up I was impressed with how we'd played because they threw loads at us but we invited them back in to the game. I'd bag Smith on last nights showing but I certainly wouldn't go too hard at the side as a whole. It was a top of the table class in its own right and their pretty much full strength side had just enough to see off our side devoid of 6 players including its two biggest attacking threats.

It's more down to the poor quality of superleague but we'll be massively in the mix for trophies.