Some of our recruitment has been bad and some has been good (Flower, Taylor, Clubb). The thing that stands out like a sore thumb for me is that the Wigan club simply do not produce top class props.

It's a topic that I've often thought about creating a thread on - who was the last great prop to be produced through the Wigan junior system?

Brian McTigue?
Ken Gee?

'Origin forward' Jacob Lilyman...

Hey, I'd have bitten Frank Pritchard's hand off!

For a while we didn't seem to produce any and since we've seen guys like Prescott, Mossop and Crosby come through who are all good(all their day) but not great props. I really like the looks of Sutton buying worry that he seems a bit on the slow side to really develop in to anything better then those three guys.

[/u

SP, that is quite a question you pose there, I thought Itchey Arsenal's answer was being a bit frivolous until I had a good think and said to myself he may be right.
I went to a football only school in Atherton but they had a maths teacher who as well as being passionate about RL was also a linesman whose name was Fred Howker. One day he came in class and produced a bundle of tickets and said they were for the Leigh v Wigan match at the coming weekend, as always out for nowt I took one.
That is when I saw the great Ken Gee and I was hooked on RL from that day on, when I started going to Central Park a couple of years later (my Wigan supporting neighbour talked me into it) was the time Brian Mac came onto the scene. The first couple of years watching him he was in the second row and some older fans said that he spent a few years in the A team after starting at centre (I cant find proof of that).

I know I have strayed off the beaten track but it made me think what a good question SP posed, I can name a lot of great props who have played for Wigan in close on 60 years since but they weren't raised by Wigan.
Maybe someone like Rouges can help with something like this, but then the question would arise asking if these forgotten players were great.

My response was tongue in cheek so to speak but as I typed it I struggled to think of of a really top prop that had come through the system in recent years. I've watched us since 67 on regular basis and though I can recollect a couple of props who came through system none of them had any longevity.
One of my regrets is that I never got to see Brian Mc in his pomp. I think he retired through a bad injury early on in the 67/68 season.
At the moment our squad of props seems to be based on depth rather than quality. I rate Flowers highly and Clubb is pretty decent but doesn't do enough minutes for me. Sutton could be the answer but I just wish he had a bit more aggression but maybe that will come with time.
Though I bemoan the quality of our centres I keep coming back to our lack of go forward from our props which I think this season will come to haunt us as in past few seasons our pace has got us out of holes and that may prove to a little more difficult to achieve this season.
im sure Rouges will correct us both and will probably end up embarrassing our collective memories!

For a 20 year old I think Sutton is pretty aggressive, certainly in defence where he has battered a couple of people but he just looks a bit sluggish to me. I look at the very top end props the country has produced over the years and think of guys like Graham, Sam Burgess, Hill, Peacock etc. Aside from Peacock towards the end all have been much quicker and lighter on their feet.

Either way I really want to see Sutton get more minutes this year.

I did hesitate before I typed aggression re Sutton and maybe your assertion that he is sluggish may be more accurate but I do agree that I also hope he gets more time this season. Not sure why he played so few minutes pre season?

2 x cc winner Ricky Bibey (random guess that he came through our academy and at the train station so too lazy to check)

He seems to have played less minutes ever since he signed a new deal last year. Maybe Wane saw a drop in intensity in training or maybe they were giving him more games to try and convince him to stay whilst thinking that he's not quite ready.

Hopefully they're just protecting him a little. He's a better option then Tautai currently so we'll hopefully see him take a bench spot against Catalans ahead of him.

So why haven't we got a pre season trial game this weekend?
A run out against a lower league club for the 17/19 likely to be named for the Catalans match.
I'm sure a club like North Wales Crusaders who are strapped for money would appreciate the fixture.
The more important reason for me is that all the players who would face Catalans will have had a a game beforehand.
I think there is a real danger we'll go into the Catalans game nowhere near the pace of the game.

Recently we seem to have been producing smaller more mobile props. i thought for a while that we we hedging our bets for if the number of subs was reduced further. The problem seems to be that the really big lads being produced are let go very early and either disappear completely or mature with other teams. I thought that Spenser looked good for Leigh the other day.

We did exactly the same thing with Lauaki. Are we going to for the hat trick with Isa?

On Manfredi what do you see in him better than Burgess? What I like about Burgess is he has time to think about what he is doing despite running 100mph down the wing. He has time to consider a pass if he is getting closed down and gave passes inside to Farrell numerous times. Other players we have are head down and run until tackled types. I am not saying Manfredi is one of those but Burgess looked mature beyond his years to me so is a tough act to follow.

If you want big try Sam Kibula who is in his first year at U19's this year. He's about 6'3" over 16 1/2 stone and 16 years of age, and he can run once he gets into gear.

www.theguardian.com/sport/no-hel ... on-skolars Kibula gets a mention in this interesting article about last Fridays game in London.

www.theguardian.com/sport/no-hel ... on-skolars Kibula gets a mention in this interesting article about last Fridays game in London.

I feel Manfredi has a very special raw aggression and desire that not many wingers have. He is lethal close to the line but his carry is also very string rarely put die by the first man rarely loses the contact and has a bit of a nasty edge to him, a bit of niggle.

Burgess in the classic wingers style maybe looks the better player because of his long distance tries but for me work ethic, finishing and ability to win the contact for me is what I like in him.

I think Manfredi if he continues to develop like he is will go on to have a stellar career.

Isa I feel will not be used as anything other than a backrow forward. I have been encouraged by the way we have used him in preseason. He seems to be running direct and passing at the line or hitting the line hard. Whilst his performances have not been great I like the way we look to be using him.

Just popped Oli Gildart into my fantasy team. Looks good from what I've seen and I've always got faith that you lot get the best out of your young 3/4s. Hopefully he'll be making your side consistently.

What fantasy team are you doing.

Quote ="Ashton Bears"What fantasy team are you doing.'" www.sldreamteam.co.uk

Quote ="Ashton Bears"What fantasy team are you doing.'" www.sldreamteam.co.uk