He made 30m. Mossop 28m. Clubb 26m. Shocking stats that highlight your biggest problem.

Id be ashamed if that was me

Unbelievable stats! Embarrassing. Last night was the first time I wondered if the players were getting tired of Wane's approach. The worst thing about it is that Leeds were poor and any decent side would have won comfortably. God help us against your lot on Good Friday! I have posted this week about how the pack shouldn't be written off but last night was a heartless display.

if you need another prop, maybe we could come to some arrangement over 'big roy'...

mathers and a few quid?

In which case. Workington should be the place for him.

They may do but then the Burgess boys still rack up 150m+ each game regardless of that being from their own end or in other areas of the pitch.

If our props aren't being asked to do any work down at our end then they should be busting teams down at their end...they aren't.

Mossop and Clubb were fantastic last week but that last night stinks of players doing 'just enough' to try and keep a place rather then busting a gut to be the best they can be.

Hardaker made 216 metres from 22 carries last night
Bowen made 43 metres from 14 carries

do you guys thing it likely that Hampshire might get a game next week at full back?

No, what kind of fee could Wigan ask for do you think if he said he wanted to go?

I just tried to cheer myself up by watching those 'other' Warriors. Not so convincing in the second half, but a wonderful first half display really showcasing what league should all be about. Quick play-the-balls, hard, fast running from the superb Ben Matulino and Jacob Lillyman, backed up by skillful and incisive back play. 22-0 at half-time, and then scoring first in the second, and despite a spirited effort from Parramatta, the match was won.

Yes, it would be great to have a Shaun Johnson or Sam Tomkins. But how we could do with a Matulino or Lillyman these days.

Or indeed, a Hoffman or Mannering.

I'm sure Mannering's skillz in sweet-talking officials would come in handy!

As a Saints fan I can't believe I'm saying this but I don't think things are too bad for you yet. Confidence looks low but doesn't take much at times to turn that around with the right people to lead you.

The main thing I think you're missing is a true leader on the field & a bit of organisation. With SOL being out injured it is highlighting the fact that Blake Green has not been replaced as a leader & organiser. Matty Smith has never really been that type of player & Williams is young & learning his trade. I don't really see any vocal leader in the pack either.

The stats from your props is concerning but that's where someone like SOL would blast them & get them rolling forward.

This all lends itself to low confidence when things aren't going right & almost every player dips in form.

Getting SOL back & keeping him fit is huge for you this year unless there is cap space to bring someone in to lead & take control of the team on the field. You've got to try & find that type of player as well.

Well that's putting the most optimistic gloss possible on it, Noggy, but even if you're right, we have to accept that SOL will play fewer and fewer games as he comes to the end of his career. We can't just say, "We were unlucky; Lockers was injured", the writing has been on the wall for a long time.

Maybe it is optimistic moto478 but it's not like you were miles away last year & has the turnover of players been so drastic (not sure of your player ins & outs) ?

Saints lost a mountain of leaders a few years back & they are not easy to replace. You go through some desperate times when you're lacking these types of players. Maybe SW needs to challenge some players to step up in those leadership roles, maybe he has & they are not delivering.

That's why Travis Burns has been a great signing for Saints this year. He's organised, he's a leader, he's competitive & has a bit of an edge about him. He's gone mental a couple of times at forwards this year when they've knocked on.

I've been watching Burns since he and Luke Walsh were a team at the Panthers (and back then, neither of them were much rated in Australia). Personally I never liked him much, but that's because of the niggley kind of player he is (like McIlorum, if you will). He's always looked at risk of a yellow, and I always thought Walsh was the better footballer by some distance, and furthermore, expected him to flourish in the slightly more attacking style of SL compared to the NRL. Which, bar injuries, he has.

But, back to Burns, I agree that what he is is a competitor. He was for HKR and he is now. We need someone in that mould, and at the moment, the only one even on the horizon in that respect, as far as I can see, is Bateman.

Agree with what you say about Walsh & Burns.

Sometimes you have to just accept some of those yellow & even red cards now & then. Any team definitely needs that type of player if you want to be successful.

George Williams provided the only creative spark of the night, putting in a perfectly weighted kick to Burgess for a try.

Perhaps you'd switched off by then?

To be fair to Patrick he got taken off after a clash of heads didn't he?

He did but he came back on afterwards.

Yep, it was a clash of heads with Clubb IIRC. I'm sure no vital organs were damaged however.

I'm not defending by any means those shocking stats but the Wane game plan is to spread the ball wide irrespective of field position and at any time in a game, it's no wonder the props stats are so bad, our/wanes game plan has never really suited a forward game, but at the minute we could do with simplyfying it and keep it tight in the middle, to try and gain some go forward and reduce the amount of errors where producing

Perhaps you could not be so condescending? this a forum, I shared my opinion. If you do not agree with that is fine, you like everyone else on here are entitled to their opinion.
if you are referring to his kick over the top for Burgess try, yes that was great and in my opinion 10 seconds of magic in 80 minutes is not good enough. In my opinion SW is to blame for Williams being chucked in at the deep end with a poor recruitment strategy but he is what we have and therefore will come in for scrutiny. That is life.

Hang on a minute. How do you know it is Wane's fault? What about Ian Lenegan? Why is it he is largely escaping any criticism?

It seems to be a popular opinion that Wane calls the team building shots and is insistent we play kids and replace everyone from within. I don't buy that at all!

Promoting from within=Cheap

Cheap is music to the ears of Ian Lenagan.

Ian Lenagan is a legend for what he's done for this club but he as much as anybody needs to change and improve based on current performance.

Precisely - Wigan's most successful teams will always be the best of locally produced players complemented by a number of others brought in from outside, some of whom will be Antipodeans. It is obviously more difficult to attract a sufficient number of outside stars because of the salary cap, but there is no excuse for not spending the full amount of the cap. We are crying out for an Aussie/NZ prop, second row and half back.

No coincidence that MM brought in quality players in those positions in Lima, Hoffmann and Finch - I know he was very lucky they all became available as they did.

The fact that a figure of a squad of 35 is frequently quoted must mean that the quality of the playing staff as a whole has been diluted - even though not all of them count on the salary cap.

When one looks at the Leeds, Warrington and Saints squads, they certainly seem to have more "stars" who are performing well and to their potential than the current Wigan squad.

Poor recruitment the past couple of years, I am afraid. Over to you, IL, Rads or Wane - if there is money available to be spent, get it spent, even if it means paying a transfer fee. If Lockers doesn't make a huge difference ( which he may not as he is physically incapable of performing regularly to the best of his ability), Wigan are really going to struggle this year unless there are some signings.

Or maybe if Wigan can get their first choice pack onto the pitch, with Flower, Lockers and a fitter MM, the half backs, whoever they are, can start to perform to their full potential.

You can't invest considerable resources and faith in an academy only to then forget about it whenever the next first team contract expires.

That said, there's absolutely no guarantee that a special academy player will mature into an equally special first team regular.

The smart play is to balance one against the other but the task is made enormously difficult by the complications which sprout from how the former combine with the latter. It's no use putting talented academy lads alongside established pros who don't provide a particularly good example or possess serious flaws within their game because bad habits picked up at an early age can take a lifetime to undo.

The best teams think ahead two or three years. But it's very difficult. It only takes one or two bad buys from Australia to lock up a significant chunk of the salary cap for a desperately lengthy period. Suddenly long-term thinking goes out the window and the club resorts to fighting fires with panic buys.

Generally speaking I think Wigan have done ok. But Wane/the Chairman/whomever has allowed one or two deficiencies to develop within the team which, left unchecked, could become a destabilising problem. I think next season's transfer market is absolutely critical for Wigan. A couple of good quality established pros should plug the gap. But the sixty-four million dollar question is - who?