The best player on the field on Sunday only has a one year deal at HKR!

In truth though I think we will desperately need a fullback and probably a prop as well.

Wane works with the squad he's given.

If a stand off and a prop would have been added (on top of what was signed) I'm sure he'd have gratefully accepted it.

I'll blame wane for the teams discipline issues but I get the feeling he has as much involvement in recruitment as you and me.

At the moment we could have The burgess twins in the front row and we would be in the same position. Poor discipline, with the ball and with the ref, and some very poor decision making has lost our points this season.

Get this sorted and we'll have a clearer picture on our recruitment needs.

Carney would not get a work permit or visa.
If you signed any of the others what do you think would happen to the likes of Hampshire, Williams, Shorrocks and Powell?

It's always so easy to throw questions like this back isn't it but they are straw man arguments.

It's the same sort of argument as we see when anyone says Smith's goal kicking isn't good enough for example. "Who would you have instead?". I have no idea but I do know its the club and coaches job to sort the issue out and its the same with recruitment. If the recruitment has been poor then it's up to the club and the coach to sort it out.

We has fans have no idea who is available or who isn't so asking who did we miss in the close season isn't really a valid question. We have signed players in the past who we as fans didn't know were available until we actually signed them.

He surely can't be totally out of the loop for recruitment. We do sign players so for example did he have no say in signing Tauati and Patrick?

Are you entirely sure Wane didn't decide we didn't actually need a more experienced stand off? He has a lot of faith in the younger players.

I am pretty sure he also said he was happy with the centres we have yet with Thornley out still we have Gelling who for all his 110% effort and charging runs is far from the finished article and is not a wingers centre yet holds down a 1st team spot. He strikes me he's another player Wane has a lot of faith in.

Looking around Super League there do seem to be a number of Half Backs who we should have had an interest in. IMO we will regret not signing someone to directly replace Green.

The Patrick signing has Waney all over it. He looks rubbish at the moment, but maybe the firmer grounds will see an improvement in him. To be fair the signings of Sarginson and Bateman have been successes.

I think that we have boys doing mens jobs in too many positions. Although Hampshire, Burgess, Williams, Connor Farrell and Sutton may turn out to be good players we can really only afford one or two of them in the team at any given time.

I also feel that Gelling might be a second rower (and an average one at that) but Goulding reminded us on Sunday what a centre should be doing. A mistake to let him go IMO.

The lack of creativity at 6, 7 and 9 is also a worry. People are picking on Matty at the moment, but my bigger concern is at hooker and Stand Off.

They will play if they are good enough and that's the way it should be.

Do the players you've mentioned have a devine right to play in the first team? We should be getting the best that's available either via the academy or from elsewhere.

We shouldn't just be playing guys because they've come from our youth set up.

I agree with this.

The shirt needs to be earned.

I don't care what happens to Hampshire, Williams or Powell over anyone else in the club. They've been getting plenty of opportunity and haven't exactly been setting the world alight. If they prove they are good enough then great if not then get someone who is. At the moment they are not good enough to be first team regulars. (Having said that Hampshire was one of the few bright spots on Sunday. He needs to back it up now)

Campese and Burns aren't in the same class as Carney, or even Walsh. TC has a good kicking game, but no pace and is a bit if a crock. Burns is likely to be suspended for half the season (what do you mean, he'd feel right at home?

). Kelly OTOH could be a good buy for HKR.

I can think of a dynamic young centre who doesn't always get a game for his current club, and who would absolutely brilliant for us.










I refer, of course, to Konrad Hurrell!

That wasn't the point.
We can't just sign an Aussie 30 odd year old halfback and just let these kids go. What's the point of having probably the best academy set up in the country if you're going to discard them at 20 years old? They have to be blooded gradually, they are NOT ready to play first team rugby week in week out at this stage of their career in such demanding pivotal positions. How many 20 year old halfbacks are playing SL? Saints tried it with Lomax and Gaskell and it failed.

If the likes of Williams and Hampshire finish up at Saints or Leeds can you imagine the outcry from Wigan fans?

Only two or three in the world are in the same class as Carney. He was brilliant on Saturday and remember he's hardly played for about 9 months. It would be great for Super League if Catalans could mount a challenge. I hope he manages to keep his demons at bay, because I love watching him play.

It's great having a strong Academy but the system is proven not to work with halfbacks you only need to look at the lack of quality coming through in that position over the last God knows how many years.

You have to bring them through gradually which is why I think a 30 odd year old stop gap signing like Campese would have been ideal on a 2 year deal for example. They could play many key games and step aside at times for a break to give the youngster like Williams 10 or so games, raising to 15 in year 2.

Williams has gone from Academy to backup hooker to wearing one of the most influential shirts in the team and he is struggling.

A 22/22 year old half with 25 games of SL under their belt is a far more productive apprenticeship than we have at the moment.

But that situation you have described there is exactly what the club did when they brought Green in. Williams, Powell, Hampshire etc were nowhere near ready so a transfer fee was paid to bring someone in. In the two years we had Green, Williams made 26 appearances and Powell made 38. If you look to do another stop-gap you lose continuity in your halves and risk the young lads moving on. Only time will tell if the club have got it right but I can absolutely see why they have approached it the way they have.

I think it's unfair to say Williams is struggling, because the whole team is. If we were completing sets and our attack was letting us down and that was the reason we were losing games then criticism of the halves would be fair enough. As it is, we're completing at 50/60% and not actually getting many decent attacking opportunities to see what Williams and Smith can do. Step 1 is to address our completion rate and number of penalties, because having Todd Carney or Jonathan Thurston in the halves wouldn't help us at the minute.

Those are exactly my thoughts. I'd rather make a judgement when we have a full strength pack available, however there needs to be questions asked re tactics and leadership at present.

How long is a stop gap?

For me the right option would have been signing Green to a 4 year deal which would have taken him to the end of his career.

If that next Rocky or Powell left then it's not that big of a deal. Green would have provided us with 6 years of service and given us continuity.

That's worth more than the premise of a kid who might be good. At the end of the day if you're good enough then you get in the side imo.

I ain't inserted up anyone.
Carney - is the absolute opposite of what IL wants ie a total richardhead
Campese - don't know enough about him
Burns - all mouth and very little action
Simms - not sure
Vea - no better than we've got
Hubby - yep I would have liked him

This.
Let's spend a fortune developing our own kids then the first season we have a wobble for over 5 years let's put all the youngsters down and look for old has beens or social outcasts from the NRL where they have been found out.
It's Bowen, Smith, MM, Tomkins, SOL and Liam F who need to be leading the way and Bateman should stop all of his macho crap and get on with playing and developing his game or have a scrap with someone (I personally think his macho stuff is a load of shoite) to prove he actually is a hard case and an enforcer that we desperately need at the moment.

You can't keep applying this logic. There is a crop of youngsters coming through every year. When do you decide to stick with any particular group if you always have kids coming through? Kevin Brown and Luke Robinson are still plying their trade - how many youngsters would we have "wasted" if we'd stuck with them? If we stick with the 4 you named, what happens to the next lot on the conveyor belt?
Aboveusonlypie has it right imo.

I would be AMAZED and slightly worried if we are spending anywhere near the full cap.

It's all well and good us playing the juniors and we were right to do that but we're reaching a crossroads with it IMO. The reason I say that is surely we produce kids to then get the best out of then when they hit their peaks? The issue we have is as soon as they get near that or in some case like Burgess well before they reach that, they're gone and playing somewhere else!

There's only so long you can keep building for a tomorrow that won't come! It's a bit like Arsenal in the premiership.

We've got the balance slightly wrong this year IMO. I still think we'll be there or thereabouts come the end of the year but we've already built a good enough side/squad to dominate this league but that many lads have moved on we keep bringing ourselves back to the pack.

The point is I feel players should be phased in. We have not phased in a half. Powell looked like he may be the one ready first, then suddenly it seems we have given up on him and Williams gets the nod.

Williams with very little game time as a first team half suddenly is expected to sink or swim. At the moment for me he is sinking.

First team is not a place to rely on untested players in key positions so heavily. A first team shirt especially in the halves should be earned and fought for.

In a slightly different situation for example had Green stayed or we recruited and Smith was playing like he currently is you would expect Williams to get the nod and a run out and a chance to earn the shirt and make it his, just like Tomkins did when the opportunity presented itself. We now have 1 senior half and 3 lads with no experience going for the same position and it appears a coach who is totally intent on backing Williams at the potential cost of isolating the other young halves.

3 into 1 doesn't go. We will lose at least one of them probably 2 at some point.

In relation to Props and Vea between him and Tautai it had to be an either or, not both as they play similar roles but given one could slot into the backrow and allowing for injury to SOL and what I doubt will be anything other than a pointless signing in Patrick then why not bring in both. We certainly would have added that much needed size.

To me the balance of the squad is just wrong and we have had opportunities for that to not be the case.

I agree with most of that but I can't agree with you saying Williams is sinking. So far he has played well against Widnes and Brisbane and had a reasonably quiet day against HKR with the ball but did score a try and was a rock in defence at times.

He's played far better then his partner who should be the one leading the way.

Problem you have is Williams is a hooker for me (and a bloody good one) rock solid in defence good distribution! He's not a stand off who will take the game by the scruff of the neck! you needed a old head at 6! Smith is letting Williams down at the moment plus playing behind a beaten pack isn't helping! He's going too be a good one that lad if you don't want him sure we could take him off your hands!