I think you make a good point but there is a difference in that most players in that position have the opportunity to transition from a part time to a full time career.

But going from a rumoured £8k per year (I don't know what his new contract offer from Wigan was) to probably in excess of £100K is the equivalent of going from part time to full time too.

With regards to the person who said he could hang around for 3 years and then go. Who's to say he couldn't get a career ending injury in that time or a career altering injury (David Vaeiliki) in that time also?

It's a short career and I wish him the best providing his attitude is right for the remaining year of his contract with us.

To be fair. I imagine in the days of Schofield, Crooks and Davies, the NRL wasn't readily available to UK TV viewers as it is now. Nowadays they're not really 'out of sight' at all.

The increase in money isn't the reason I made the point. The point is that a player with the opportunity to move from Championship to Super League has an opportunity to play sport for a living which would be the dream of most young men. Mixing two jobs may also carry logistical difficulties.

I'm not being naïve, believe me I know for some people money is the be all and end all. But in this situation I would have hoped that things like loyalty and gratitude would be bigger motivators.

As for the prospect of career ending injury, you can't possibly plan your career with the fear that this will happen. The chances are slim in the scheme of things. It's like you or I saying we want to travel the world in a week because we might get run down by a car or keel over at any moment.

That is because it is not remotely the same thing.

Going form being an amateur to full time pro is not the same as a full time pro moving from one club (or competition) to another.

I was just going to make the same point. I don't know what Burgess ambitions are beyond his Roosters contract but he'd better just skip playing for them at all and move directly onto that in case he gets injured playing for them.

I agree but the frustration is there doesn't seem to be any ambition to increase the amount of money in the UK game.

The "cost" of running an elite RL side is whatever the NRL salary cap is. If you can't pay that or at least pretty close to it you will always lose your best players to them.

In the long run this is not sustainable because if players as young as Burgess go then the old adage "we have had players leave and have survived" won't work any more as the best of the replacements will follow them out of the door.

Faffing about with the structure of the league and spreading the available money as thinly as we do does nothing to close the gap.

Well he's going now so no good dwelling on it, let's hope the 4 players they are talking to all sign, they're the ones we should be concentrating on....especially Hampshire!

Having just watched a lot of the NRL last season courtesy of Premier sports I am far from convinced that he will actually get a regular game for the Roosters. Whilst he is an exciting talent for sure, he makes a lot of mistakes. I think at one stage last season he made the most errors in Super League. Now, obviously he is young and should improve but I think that the NRL is a much less forgiving place to make errors. It could be a disastrous move for his career, though not his bank balance. (Although if he was on so little to begin with his Wigan salary would have been increased tenfold, not bad for a twenty year old).

Surely better advice would have been to do what Sam did. Give us five years and break all the try scoring records you can then go over as a star, not an inexperienced kid who has won nothing.

As to whether he should be picked now. You pick the best/most in-form 13 (17) available. However if Dom Manfredi gets his chance and takes it I would expect him to keep his place whereas if Burgess was staying that dynamic might change.

I'm genuinely delighted about Ryan Sutton. Waney must have high hopes for him. He seems to play without any fear at all. His first carry last Sunday he looked at Fuifui and went straight at him. Impressive.

Obviously it's a shame, but good luck to the lad. It's not the end of the world, if we are honest wingmen are probably the easiest to replace especially in our team where most of their tries come from basically catching and putting it down.

Let's not forget Manfreddi and Burgess were both being spoken about as competitors to replace Richards and I am sure he can do an excellent job for us.

I think some people think Wigan is the centre of the rugby universe. It's not. Talk of freezing him out etc is embarrassing. If he is playing well and earning his spot he needs to play. Manfreddi will get plenty of chances next year as well. There is no point cutting your nose off to spite your face.

The simple fact is the NRL is where any player with ambition to be the best they can be needs to go.

As an Internationalist over club affiliation I think it is a great move and helps England move closer to that all important series win.

Treat him poorly this year and we will never see him at Wigan again, we may not anyway but no need to burn our bridges.

Personally I would also love to see one of our young halves go to the NRL sooner rather than later as without a competative England side and credible International game we can never get more money and recognition into the game and this short term farming of our junior talent and inferior comp will be a long term problem.

There's a lot to this. Even with the omni-shambles that is Red Hall, a stronger international team can only benefit the game in the UK. The fact that his move is all over the BBC this morning may only be a result of their assumption that he's related to the other Burgess, but it's the sort of news that has to be pounced on and bigged-up by the the RFL (who's media team are based in Salford Quays anyway): and thus keep the game in the general conciousness.

We've an up-hill struggle this year anyway to get any air-time, but bickering & sniping at the lad for wanting to earn a wage won't help anyone. I'd love for all our kids to have the same "one-club" attitude of, say, SOL, who I suspect may well go on to be a stand-out coach/manager. But they're few & far between.

Good luck to the lad, said through gritted teeth because I'd really like to be a selfish tw*t & keep him for a while longer. But can anyone here genuinely say they'd not do exactly the same?

Players moved in both directions then as the seasons overlapped. GB were very competitive. Thanks to Micron Video all the Aussie games were available, pubs put on Aussie matches to full houses. Aussie RL magazines were on sale at Smiths. They weren't out of sight at all.

This deal was done a long while back and has been kept under wraps, same situation as with some of your previous players had been asked to take lower wage increases and play for the "Wigan badge"

Wigan offered Burgess a long contract but at low wages, he signed for Sydney last year when in OZ for the WCC.

What annoyed Wigan was he did not reject their contract and enter back into negotiations he signed with Sydney and didn't tell anyone.

When Wigan approached him and said what's happening with your new contract he then said im leaving as Sydney had offered 3 times more.

He was Pi***d off at what Wigan had offered him.

If all that is true - and I've no reason to doubt you - then it seems an odd way for the player to negotiate. At the time of the WCC Burgess was still an unknown quantity, and therefore couldn't expect a mega bucks contract.

After the season finished he would surely be in a better position to negotiate with BOTH Wigan and The Roosters. Actually he would probably been able to negotiate a much better contract with both had he waited - the impetuousness of youth.

If he did sign last February then he's been very short sighted indeed. Taking the first offer is just dumb. Or maybe he didn't have much confidence in his own abilities.

Again, if what you say is true - He's managed to shaft Wigan and himself all at once IMO.

Wigan were still in negotiations with Burgess mid season. Sadly they couldn't match the Roosters offer, well they could, but it would have blown a hole in their wage structure, which would have been poor business in the long term. I really hope he does well out there. He's a player I have admired since I first saw him in the U16's side but I do think he should have stayed at Wigan for another three years before moving, and only time will tell if he's done the best thing for himself and/or his career.

Rogues - Are you saying that 'Johnny Headline' is mistaken and that Joe didn't sign with the Roosters at the WCC? Or possibly your source may have been saying what he thought we, as fans, wanted to hear?

I'm saying what I was reliably told from an excellent source in June last year and someone who would definitely know what was happening.

There is already more to Burgess game to that which is why I think he is a big loss. His vision to put Farrell in for several tries after having made a break and then giving a perfect inside pass was a pleasure to watch and in one so young a mark of real talent IMO.



The idea we have to send players to play in the NRL because (the implication is) our competition won't produce a competitive England side is the wrong answer to that particular problem.

We never will be any good if the best players are elsewhere. I doubt we'll ever be able to pick an England squad made up of entirely NRL based players even if that were desirable (which I don't think it is) and so the ones who are left behind here play in an even more inferior competition. So while any player who goes may improve, the fact that they have gone means it's an easier game for the those left not having to face the best UK players in an even more inferior competition.

DaveO has a point with his last paragraph. Look how good the Kiwi team is, look how bad their domestic comp is.....

Cheers. Again, no reason to doubt you or your source.

It does seem an odd state of affairs. I understand why you and others wish him all the best. But whilst part of me wishes that too - part of me is annoyed at him and his advisers. This season will be a real test for him. The minute things start to go wrong (if they go wrong), he will be on a hiding to nothing with the fans.

It leaves me wondering how Leeds have managed to keep Ryan Hall (who simply must have had NRL offers) happy. His many international tries, often against Australia, plus Super League and Challenge Cup successes, have been enough for him.

Some thoughts on this, apologies if they are all old hat as haven't read the full thread:
- there is something desperately wrong with our game that we have become a feeder league to the NRL, and, even worse, the dark side. It is insane not to have a marquee player exemption, and we are all the poorer for it;
- good luck to Budgie personally, at least this is out in the open and we can move on;
- it sounds like we couldn't reasonably keep him, but in any event I could see the logic if Wigan decided to act cautiously here. He is better than Manfredi, but manfredi is very good and will score most of the tries Budgie does. He isn't in my top 5 key players, not because he isn't brilliant, but because you need a great spine and great props before he can do what he does;
- I can't see that there is much Wigan could or should do here. The problem is the first one above - with no capacity to sprinkle glitter dust talent the competition is in peril of slipping inexorably backwards into oblivion.

I can honestly see this move being a bad one for Joe and I'm trying my very best not to sound disappointed or bitter about this news. I doubt he will get half as much game time as he did at Wigan last year, his 1st year in the 1st squad as we all know. he has obviously took the bait of the lifestyle and the experience and at the end of the day fair play to him, if I was offered the chance to work abroad even in my line of work at his age I'd have snapped it up no matter the wage. he doesn't have any responsibilities such as children as far as i know so he doesn't need to worry about the impact on his own lifestyle at least. but in the game of rugby, it doesn't always work out as you wish and I hope he hasn't burnt any bridges with Wigan in doing what he has as I can see him coming back "home" with his tail between his legs sooner rather than later. I'd love for him to prove me wrong of course.

I remember waney saying he had a good "cockyish" streak which he loved about him and don't get me wrong, you need a good winger who is confident in his own abilities and is willing to put it about but I think the aussies will tear him to shreds and show him up which may knock his confidence. I hate to say that, I just don't think the time was right for him to take a move there.

all the best to him and I hope the move proves successful for him, I just cannot see anything other than the opposite I'm afraid.

on the flip side we have the likes of manfredi who would commit to the club and have just as much potential. so every cloud and all that! I just hope that wane sees that he needs some game time now, despite joe claiming to want to give 100% in his final year this coming season. there is little point in playing him week in week out for the sake of trying to win a trophy if you are thinking longer term like myself.

Good luck to the lad.

They obviously like the surname in oz.

I agree there is more to his game than just scoring but who knows Manfreddi may well also thrive in the first team. Wing is not a key position the way we play.

The only way SL is going to get stronger is by raising the profile of the game in the UK. The only way to do that is produce a successful International side. Looking short term the NRL is the best route to accomplish this for developing our players.

Joe may have looked at or spoken to Sam Burgess and realised the move to Aus at this time could be a far more lucrative way to get into Union.