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| Quote ="Aboveusonlypie"It would be slightly odd for Michael Maguire to come over for the WCC and not use Wigan's training facilities wouldn't' it? He and SW are very close friends too. Why wouldn't you help a friend out.'"
But surely the same could be said for Tony Smith helping out his close friend Trent Robinson and nephew Keegan who are both part of the Roosters set-up?
I agree it would be odd for Wane not to give Maguire a helping hand, but surely you can see that he is a hypocrite for doing so AFTER criticising Tony Smith for doing the exact same thing.
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| Quote ="The Yellow Giraffe"But surely the same could be said for Tony Smith helping out his close friend Trent Robinson and nephew Keegan who are both part of the Roosters set-up?'"
Yes I know Robinson worked with Smith's brother, but it isn't the same. Warrington were over in Sydney for heaven's sake, not hosting the Roosters but actively helping them out.
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| Quote ="Aboveusonlypie"Yes I know Robinson worked with Smith's brother, but it isn't the same. Warrington were over in Sydney for heaven's sake, not hosting the Roosters but actively helping them out.'"
Warrington have gone on pre-season tours to Australia before and trained with Sydney Roosters in previous years. What they did in 2014 was no different to other pre-season trips. Have South Sydney trained with Wigan before?
I'm surprised at you to be honest because you're normally very level-headed and fair. It's quite clear that Wane slagged Smith off for doing something that he is now planning on doing himself. That's hypocrisy personified.
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| Quote ="The Yellow Giraffe"Warrington have gone on pre-season tours to Australia before and trained with Sydney Roosters in previous years. What they did in 2014 was no different to other pre-season trips. Have South Sydney trained with Wigan before?
I'm surprised at you to be honest because you're normally very level-headed and fair. It's quite clear that Wane slagged Smith off for doing something that he is now planning on doing himself. That's hypocrisy personified.'"
Ah well, as they say love is blind. You've found my blind spot. I don't mind criticism of SW, but I hate the name-calling.
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| talk about nit picking anything Waney does or says you lot will pick the bones out of it eh YG.
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| Quote ="Aboveusonlypie"Ah well, as they say love is blind. You've found my blind spot. I don't mind criticism of SW, but I hate the name-calling.'"
I'd hardly class it as "name-calling" by saying he is acting hypocritically, especially when it's so blatantly obvious as well.
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| Quote ="The Yellow Giraffe"Warrington have gone on pre-season tours to Australia before and trained with Sydney Roosters in previous years. What they did in 2014 was no different to other pre-season trips. Have South Sydney trained with Wigan before?
I'm surprised at you to be honest because you're normally very level-headed and fair. It's quite clear that Wane slagged Smith off for doing something that he is now planning on doing himself. That's hypocrisy personified.'"
Wane slagged off Warrington for agreeing to "play as Wigan", not for training with the Roosters. If you are going to claim someone is an hypocrite at least get the facts right in the first place.
In answer to your question, yes South Sydney have trained with Wigan before.
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| Quote ="Wigan28/Leeds18 Andy"Wane slagged off Warrington for agreeing to "play as Wigan", not for training with the Roosters. If you are going to claim someone is an hypocrite at least get the facts right in the first place.
In answer to your question, yes South Sydney have trained with Wigan before.'"
Hi Andy.
I think Wane had an issue in general with Warrington training with Sydney Roosters and helping them to prepare for their game against Wigan. Even it was specifically to do with them setting up like Wigan, are you really that naive to think that Wigan won't be giving Maguire pointers on how Saints play?
Now Shaun Wane is planning on training with Sydney Rabbitohs to help them prepare for their game with Saints.
Dress it up however you like, that is quite clearly hypocritical behaviour.
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| Quote ="The Yellow Giraffe"Warrington have gone on pre-season tours to Australia before and trained with Sydney Roosters in previous years. What they did in 2014 was no different to other pre-season trips. Have South Sydney trained with Wigan before?
I'm surprised at you to be honest because you're normally very level-headed and fair. It's quite clear that Wane slagged Smith off for doing something that he is now planning on doing himself. That's hypocrisy personified.'"
I think it fair to say there are both similarities and differences. Maguire is a former coach of Wigan, a personal friend of both Wane and Lenagan and the tournament is being hosted in this country and the game held just a few miles down the road, so it was always going to be the case that Souths would train here. In addition, it was admitted that Wire changed their style of play to copy that of Wigan's purely in order to help the Roosters (which is what I understand was Wane's main problem) so to suggest that Wire were only there in their own best interests is a little disingenuous unless you are prepared to show that this is normal for their pre season training regime. It was the fact that a British team was going out of it's way to help the Aussies beat their fellow SL representatives that angered him. I have little doubt that you can see a marked contrast between that and merely acting as hosts to a visiting nation. Were Wigan to follow the same pattern and adjust their style of play to mirror Saints then I would agree that there is indeed a level of hypocrisy. Can you honestly see Wane disrupting his pre-season in that way though? I'd be very surprised to say the least! Having said all that, I don't think his reaction to what Wire did last year served him well. He'd have been better advised just to get on with it in my opinion.
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| Quote ="Phuzzy"I think it fair to say there are both similarities and differences. Maguire is a former coach of Wigan, a personal friend of both Wane and Lenagan and the tournament is being hosted in this country and the game held just a few miles down the road, so it was always going to be the case that Souths would train here. In addition, it was admitted that Wire changed their style of play to copy that of Wigan's purely in order to help the Roosters (which is what I understand was Wane's main problem) so to suggest that Wire were only there in their own best interests is a little disingenuous unless you are prepared to show that this is normal for their pre season training regime. It was the fact that a British team was going out of it's way to help the Aussies beat their fellow SL representatives that angered him. I have little doubt that you can see a marked contrast between that and merely acting as hosts to a visiting nation. Were Wigan to follow the same pattern and adjust their style of play to mirror Saints then I would agree that there is indeed a level of hypocrisy. Can you honestly see Wane disrupting his pre-season in that way though? I'd be very surprised to say the least! Having said all that, I don't think his reaction to what Wire did last year served him well. He'd have been better advised just to get on with it in my opinion.'"
I don't disagree with any of that mate. Especially the last 2 sentences.
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| Quote ="Phuzzy"Haha...how did I know those would be your favourites!
'"
Haha. I thought it was an excellent summary of the situation actually.
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| Quote ="The Yellow Giraffe"Hi Andy.
I think Wane had an issue in general with Warrington training with Sydney Roosters and helping them to prepare for their game against Wigan. Even it was specifically to do with them setting up like Wigan, are you really that naive to think that Wigan won't be giving them Maguire pointers on how Saints play?
Now Shaun Wane is planning on training with Sydney Rabbitohs to help them prepare for their game with Saints.
Dress it up however you like, that is quite clearly hypocritical behaviour.'"
The only person who is naive is someone trying to peddle the same old rubbish on here while ignoring the facts.
As Tony Smith said:
Quote [iWe did some training as Wigan and I have no qualms about that. I am not too worried if Wigan are upset[/i.'" - Although lets face it, pretending to be Wigan is the closest Warrington are going to get to a title.
Given his background in SL and as a double GF winning coach I doubt Maguire will be relying on Wigan to know how Stains will play. You can also be certain Wane won't play as Stains either.
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| Quote ="Wigan28/Leeds18 Andy"The only person who is naive is someone trying to peddle the same old rubbish on here while ignoring the facts.
As Tony Smith said:
- Although lets face it, pretending to be Wigan is the closest Warrington are going to get to a title.
Given his background in SL and as a double GF winning coach I doubt Maguire will be relying on Wigan to know how Stains will play. You can also be certain Wane won't play as Stains either.'"
Ahh, referring to us as Stains, how mature.
I'm not trying to peddle anything. I'm having a civil conversation with some rational people. Now you come along and want an argument and start referring to my posts as rubbish.
Let's face it, you have a long-standing personal problem with me and it comes across blatantly in your posts.
Back on point, I can see the differences in what both coaches have done and I agree Shaun Wane won't do the same things that Smith did in terms of playing "as Wigan." However the irony of the situation of fairly obvious.
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| Quote ="The Yellow Giraffe"Ahh, referring to us as Stains, how mature.
I'm not trying to peddle anything. I'm having a civil conversation with some rational people. Now you come along and want an argument and start referring to my posts as rubbish.
Let's face it, you have a long-standing personal problem with me and it comes across blatantly in your posts.
Back on point, I can see the differences in what both coaches have done and I agree Shaun Wane won't do the same things that Smith did in terms of playing "as Wigan." However the irony of the situation of fairly obvious.'"
Ah - the old playing the victim card. Not seen that one before. Please keep on topic, I know it's difficult for your agenda but please try.
Anyway, there's plenty of info out there to corroborate what I said.
Here's some more:
Quote The Warrington and Roosters coaching staff jointly diagnosed Wigan’s strengths and weaknesses during a video review session.
The English club then lined up and played like Wigan do, in a practice match, so that the Roosters could hone their defensive tactics.'"
But lets not let facts get in the way.
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| Quote ="Wigan28/Leeds18 Andy"Ah - the old playing the victim card. Not seen that one before. Please keep on topic, I know it's difficult for your agenda but please try.
Anyway, there's plenty of info out there to corroborate what I said.
Here's some more:
But lets not let facts get in the way.'"
At what point have I disputed what Tony Smith did to help the Roosters? I have no idea why you keep going on about that, it makes no sense.
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| ooooo so many posts being ignored
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| What I found most interesting was Wane saying he plans to change the way we play.
We've had a lot of success with our structured attack over the last 5 years and may continue to do so but I do feel we need more variety at times.
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| Quote ="The Yellow Giraffe"At what point have I disputed what Tony Smith did to help the Roosters? I have no idea why you keep going on about that, it makes no sense.'"
Just more info as to what Wane had a problem with - i.e. Wire playing as Wigan - until it can be proved he's done the same to help someone else he can't be called a hypocrite. It was very specific what he had a problem with.
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| Quote ="Wigan28/Leeds18 Andy"Just more info as to what Wane had a problem with - i.e. Wire playing as Wigan - until it can be proved he's done the same to help someone else he can't be called a hypocrite. It was very specific what he had a problem with.'"
Well that's the grey area isn't it. Unless you've spoken to him privately about what he had an issue with and/or watch his training sessions with Souths, I guess we'll never know for sure.
However as a general rule, surely even you can see the irony in him training with Souths after him spitting his dummy out earlier in the year?
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| Quote ="MadDogg"What I found most interesting was Wane saying he plans to change the way we play.
We've had a lot of success with our structured attack over the last 5 years and may continue to do so but I do feel we need more variety at times.'"
That's nice to hear actually. This is what Nobby failed to do & why lots of coaches that stay with the same club for a while end up leaving under a cloud when their tactics are unpicked.
I hope he doesn't get too radical & end up confusing our poor dears, but if he's skipped a few letters & worked out plan F, this should be interesting (I hope).
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| The "playing differently" was the bit that interested me as well.
Tautai has come in and is known for his good passing and offloads. He now has two of the fastest props in SL with Clubb and Patrick. Perhaps we are going to be more dynamic up the middle where as well as the fast ptb Waney will have them tackle busting with supporting players picking up the pass or offload.
Offloads were never high in the team stats so that would be a real change in the way the team will play. He will also have more pace in the middle from the smaller men. Williams is fast as is Hampshire either from fb or hb. Those two could be devastating picking up passes and offloads.
Looks like something really different and exciting to look forward to.
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| Quote ="The Yellow Giraffe"Well that's the grey area isn't it. Unless you've spoken to him privately about what he had an issue with and/or watch his training sessions with Souths, I guess we'll never know for sure.
However as a general rule, surely even you can see the irony in him training with Souths after him spitting his dummy out earlier in the year?'"
Not really. That's been the case as long as I've been watching the game. It's not unusual to go as far as arranging warm up games. Usually these things are regarded as benefitting both parties. He made it plain at the time that he was angry that Wire went out of their way to do things like imitate Wigan's way of playing (which has absolutely no benefit to Wire whatsoever) which he thought was a bridge too far. Its like arguing that the next time a Saints player hits an opposition player the club are being hypocrites after the fuss they made of the Flower incident. I'm sure WHEN that happens (as opposed to if! ) you'll argue that the two incidents are different and the fuss made over the Flower incident had a completely different set of circumstances. Or am I wrong?
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| Quote ="The Yellow Giraffe"Well that's the grey area isn't it. Unless you've spoken to him privately about what he had an issue with and/or watch his training sessions with Souths, I guess we'll never know for sure.
However as a general rule, surely even you can see the irony in him training with Souths after him spitting his dummy out earlier in the year?'"
No grey area, I've given you everything you need, I even gave you Smith's response to it which was specific to the issue - the fact you keep ignoring it speaks volumes.
Wigan trained with Souths in the week of the WCC this year, they are just returning the favour - no surprise Maguire wants to train at Wigan given he was instrumental in developing and changing a lot of what is at Orrell.
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| Quote ="Phuzzy"Not really. That's been the case as long as I've been watching the game. It's not unusual to go as far as arranging warm up games. Usually these things are regarded as benefitting both parties. He made it plain at the time that he was angry that Wire went out of their way to do things like imitate Wigan's way of playing (which has absolutely no benefit to Wire whatsoever) which he thought was a bridge too far. Its like arguing that the next time a Saints player hits an opposition player the club are being hypocrites after the fuss they made of the Flower incident. I'm sure WHEN that happens (as opposed to if!
) you'll argue that the two incidents are different and the fuss made over the Flower incident had a completely different set of circumstances. Or am I wrong?'"
Quote ="Wigan28/Leeds18 Andy"No grey area, I've given you everything you need, I even gave you Smith's response to it which was specific to the issue - the fact you keep ignoring it speaks volumes.
Wigan trained with Souths in the week of the WCC this year, they are just returning the favour - no surprise Maguire wants to train at Wigan given he was instrumental in developing and changing a lot of what is at Orrell.'"
Saints would be hypocritical if (not when ) a Saints player hit someone and then we went on to defend them. That would be hypocritical.
I accept that IF Wane's issue was purely with Warrington imitating Wigan and he has no intention of setting up as Saints in training with Souths then he isn't as hypocritical as I first thought.
My initial comments were based on the fact that he took umbrage with Warrington simply training with Roosters. If that wasn't the case then fair enough.
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