I would replace Sam at Full Back due to his inability to even try to get anywhere near a high kick in his own 20,IMO this is an area that the Aussies will target big time
Why can't Sam get to grips with this big deficiency in his game?
Why does he always look so vulnerable under these high kicks?
Are you not worried as an England fan (rather than a Wigan fan) that should Sam let high kicks bounce in our 20 on Sunday that we could get a right tonking?

IMO Hardaker is the best defensive full back in the world without a doubt,He is also pretty good offensively too and given the choice i believe that Zak is a far better full back than Sam

I agree that Josh is safe under the high ball but he was far too easily dominated in the tackle when he tried to clear his line IMO, I admit that i may have been hasty with Josh here so I'll hold my hands up
although i would love to see budgie given a go at this level, he will make mistakes defensively but he looks electric with the ball in his hands

I hope that i am wrong on this and that Sam has a blinder defensively and diffuses every Aussie high ball and that we go onto win........But i doubt it unfortunately

Hardaker isn't the best defensive full back in the world.
The best defensive full back, as well as being the best attacking full back, is Billy Slater.

I think you need to discuss this one closer to home


Where do you stand on the Sam debate?

One thing is for sure, Sam at fullback or not at fullback simply must be in the team somewhere. That frailty under the high ball is a big worry for me but if it's a choice between him playing fullback or not at all I'd choose fullback every single time.

I just wish Smith was a slightly more robust defender. If he were I'd be moving him in to 9 and Sam in to the halves.

He's the best English full back in the world. Hardaker is solid at the back but offers nowhere near the attacking options Tomkins does. Tomkins may cost us a try, maybe he won't, but I can almost guarantee he will create chances for us to score tries that Hardaker simply doesn't have the ability to.

I believe Tomkins' kicking game is inferior to that of Widdop and Smith, his organisational play leaves a lot to be desired. His main attribute is his off the cuff running style, this style fits perfectly for the modern full back.

England would be a poorer team without Tomkins at FB.

Sam tomkins seems to have gone back after his first season in the NRL. He doesn't beat a man anymore, he doesn't attempt to take the high balls either so maybe a move to the halves would help as he has to be in the 13.

Couldn't widdup just slot back to fullback ? I wouldn't want to move Matty smith out the halves even tho I think that hodgson isn't good enough.

I agree with poster regarding Charnley at international level. He just isn't the same as he doesn't run as hard and is very easliy dominated so maybe young burgess couid come in ?

I've been hearing a lot of talk about Charnley being dominated with the ball. Here's an interesting stat from today-

Hall 130m

Charnley 136m

Hall made one fantastic long break as well (and was generally superb). He's not had his best game but I wouldn't be looking to drop Charnley.

Biggest question for next week is were does Shenton play. Watkins was poor again defensively and Hall And Sarge gave the Aussies nightmares.

There's a very good reason why Tom Briscoe has just recorded his lowest try tally in five seasons?

I just don't think he's the same for England. Maybe it's the better opposition but I highly rate Charnley at super league level but IMHO doesn't look the same player for England.

But he's getting no decent ball, a problem I highlighted when referring to Tom Briscoe. It's amazing how his try scoring has dropped since he went to Leeds with Watkins as his centre.

I can go with that but it's also his kick returns ain't as good as at Wigan. He doesn't seem to run with the same confidence.

Watkins defence isn't the greatest either.

Watkins defence is poor even in Super League nevermind International standard.

Pete, have you changed your view re: Sarginson? I read over on your board that you thought he shouldn't be anywhere near an International shirt. He was the best centre on the pitch today and by some distance. Certainly showed all the hallmarks of being international class to me, especially given his age and relative inexperience. What say you?

I think he was very very good today. I did say to Brian in that post that I hadn't seen much of him tbh but Brian assured me he'd tightened up his defence in the 2nd part of the season.

His footwork is very very good and the way he changed his run to get outside walker was excellent. The pass reminded me of the kind of passes Goulding was given Charnley the other season.

I'm still a little sceptical on Sarginson but he's improved so much at Wigan it's pretty scary.

Tbh most Wigan fans thought 2 months ago Sarginson was not good enough to be in our squad. A point many will conveniently forget. He has not just surprised you but all of us with how much improvement he has done in 2 months. Sarginson has the potential to be a world class player in the next few years.

Well certainly not perfect is he or did you put the mokers on him? You should remember the one he dropped this morning as it cost us 6 points. Charnley was totally ineffective on attack and seems to prefer to run into tacklers rather than aiming for the gaps. No where near the class of Hall

Agree but Watkins is nowhere near the class of Sarginson at centre.

Just a point on the dropped ball. It would have been a drop out under the posts regardless if he caught it clean as Inglis was hitting him just 3 yards from the try line and would have taken him over. He should have caught it no reason really not to. But the outcome was going to be the same. From an England point of view i would be more worried about the poor ability of Watkins in defence. Missed tackle and poor reading is hurting a lot more than anything anyone else did and that includes the refs.

The thing with Sarginson is he's really just turning in to the player he was expected to become when he was first coming through at London. He was very highly thought of and there was always talk that we wouldn't be able to keep him in league. Unfortunately for him (but probably good for us) his form went west and his progress was halted playing in a shocking London side and he needed a move to get him going in the right direction again.

The lad could be very good. I was worried earlier in the year that he was going backwards because he was making so many bad calls with the ball but around August time something clicked for him and his decision making has been superb ever since. His link up with Burgess is very impressive and if Charnley was to make way I'd possibly be looking to get that link going next week on the left with Hall shifting to the right to link with his Leeds mate Watkins.

Fair comment. What we saw today is pretty much what we've been seeing at Wigan for the last few months of the season. He's come on so much in a such a short space of time that I suppose it's not surprising that many, including yourself, were a little sceptical of his inclusion. It did seem very early. However, he's taken his club form seamlessly into the international arena and taken his chance with both hands. He's not the finished article by any means and I'm sure there'll be both good and bad still to come. I think few can doubt his credentials now though. I thought Wilkin's comparison to Matt Gidley was particularly telling. If he continues his current rate of improvement he could well become the type of centre England (or GB!) hasn't seen since Martin Gleeson and that would be most welcome!

Briscoes lack of tries is more due to Delaney at second row on the right, who also restricts Watkins(who I think many seem to be writing off a little too early).

Wasn't convinced by Sarg when we signed him but it has to be said he really is a very good player already and potentially could be a very special player. His footwork and dynamic strength is very special.

Watkins I rate highly but his defence is a real issue. Going forward he is very good but his decisions in defence and his failure to stick to the patterns is a real weakness.

Watkins defense has certainly dropped off this season.
Thought he was unlucky when Hodgson was slow to cover leaving Watkins exposed.
I don't think Joel Tomkins helps with his reading of the play either And OLoughlin totally mis read the chip for the Hunt try.
But let's blame Watkins for the loss hey?

take that ball. Charnley didn't have the best game, but I still feel he's a better option than Budgie. Can you imagine the slating he would get if he'd cost us that game? That type of abuse could really affect a young player's confidence.

I cannot understand how Joel Tomkins is even in the team. Elliott Whitehead was superb throughout the season. There is no comparison between the two on last season's performances. O'Loughlin's main contribution was to give penalties away. He does not seem fit. His injury problems have severely affected his performance. Both were included on past reputation not current form. Westerman played well against Samoa and should have kept his place. I can understand Wigan fans trumpeting O'Loughlin's inclusion as when he is fit is arguably the best 13 we have. That is not at this moment in time though.