Duplicate - site problem

Duplicate - site problem

The Bradford team looks really good but this is our team they beat 25 12 in the grand final

radlinski
carney
hodgson
aspinwall
dallas
o'loughlin
robinson
pongia
newton
smith
cassidy
tickle
farrell

o'conner
hock
smith
johnson

I think our current team would maul a side with Aspinwall and Hodgson in the centres and Robinson and O'Loughlin in the halves never mind Tickle and Smith. Even then Bradford resorted to Westwood style tactics with Pryce taking out Carney.

When people say that I just laugh. "It's not fair!" Life isn't fair. "Wigan bought all the best players" No we didn't. "The rest of the league was part time" No it wasn't.

It wasn't true then either. Widnes and Leeds (especially Leeds) spent a fortune on players. Widnes had Deveraux, Myler Sorenson, Davies and before he joined us Lydon and plenty more top players. They had some great players and games v then were never a foregone conclusion. Wire had Des Drummond and others including Mike Gregory and I remember one year Wigan only lost two league games, both to Wire. We won the league on points difference from Bradford once so people (including our own fans at times) have a very odd memory of how it really was back then.

I remember Wigan employing Bill Hartley as a sprint coach because it was thought if he could teach the players how to run properly he could get an extra yard of pace out of them.

It's never been just money that has led to success at Wigan because a professional attitude and approach has always been equally important.

Have they mentioned that Wigan are tenants rather than owners of their ground yet? Very important point to get over as it clearly shows they they are much better than Wigan despite Wigan are a rugby club and not a facilities management company.

So if this is the worst side to do the double ever.

Therefore does it entail its the greatest achievement by a Rugby League side in the UK.

Thats a nice piece of cherry picking by the OP who has managed to bait the Wigan Fans.
It was just one post from 7 pages from the thread ONE THING WE MUST LEARN FROM WIGAN.
Almost all saints fans have not responded to it, yet the OP has managed to bait people on here 100%.

If people bother to read the thread most of it is complimentary to Wigan, something the OP has missed, maybe he only has one eye.

RLFans isn't the be all and end all of RL like most seem to think on here, I first heard after the grand final in my local which is in St Helens by the way, a Saints fan stood at the bar and I quote "That tonight is the worse team on paper to win any final, infact they shouldn't even be there"! I've seen it posted on Facebook by St Helens fans, on Twitter by St Helens fans, on here by St Helens fans and no doubt the local St Helens rag will pick up on it and spout verbal sh*te about it too. Other fans from other clubs have also stated this so it's not just you precious little scousers who are guilty.

So it might be cherry picking as you put it but it was one hell of a big bunch.

But you are referencing this saints forum on here where the actual words "Worse Team on Paper to Do the Double" is in the thread content. These exact words are not used on RedV, Facebook and Twitter etc.

If you bothered to read his actual thread he had put two compliments in there, but by all means take your glass eye out and see things otherwise. I will post you the St Helens local rag if they come up with your forecasted visionary.

If you want to edit your original post and thread title to match up with what Saints fans said in pubs and social media, then by all means go ahead.........it might make you feel justifiably better.

There again the worst team on paper won.
We'll still come to your place next year singing "Five in a row".
Now perhaps is the time when we visit Wire to start "two in a row"
Follow up to "It's always your year"

Wasn't a bad game by modern standards. As I always say you can only beat what's put in front of you and Wigan did just that.

I've always said that different should never be used as a benchmark when determining who was the best/worst side ever. However you only have to go on Youtube and look at some of the games served up in the mid-late 80's/90's and early 2000's to make you wonder where it all went wrong for rugby league in this country as a whole.

Finally -

Is this Wigan the worst team ever to win a final? No. Not by a long way.

Are they the best? No. But they are up there with teams over say the past 5-6 years.

Was there better? Probably.

Will there be better ? Hope so (for the games sake).

I agree with you 100% back then there were some quality players outside Wigan, that were better than any player you see in the league today: Schofield, Davies, Newlove (and one of either Offiah or Hanley depending on the era we're talking about).

Wigan always had good players but even then the squad on paper probably wasnt enough to win everything, but year after year Wigan were slightly ahead of the rest, and won the big games when it counted, the professionalism and attitude was off the scale, Wigan could always find a way to win. I think the most influential figures were Edwards and Bell, they were the heart of that drive and professionalism. Without them, Wigan back then would have been a side like Saints under Millward, a top team that won things, but didn't relentlessly monopolise all the trophies. But I think if an Edwards or Bell had got in to that Saints dressing room and brought the same culture to them, then the years from about 1999 to 2008 would have seen Saints win pretty much everything going.

"if" this is the worst team on paper to win the double it just goes to show how poor the rest of the teams and their coaches are in SL at the moment. This team had to beat the teams that finished 1st, 3rd and 2nd in the league in consequetive matches to achieve the Grand final win to complete the double.

Lets hope our squad next season is just as bad and the opposition are as good as they have been this year

Edwards and Bell and a few others hated to lose more than they liked winning! Or so it seemed at times. They certainly had a very determined attitude.

As a point about the grand final and this worst team thing, I was reading the Challenge Cup final program the other day and there is an article about when Featherstone beat Hull. They were not fancied at all and Hobbs said himself in the article it wasn't considered a great final quality wise [ibut he didn't care[/i. Did a poor team win a low quality final? Did he care?

I think people forget this aspect. Whatever debate goes on in forums like this at the end of the day if you get to a final and win it doesn't really enter your head about the quality of the game or the team. The GF was better than the CC quality wise but I really enjoyed the CC probably more than I did in 2011 for some reason I have not worked out (not that I didn't enjoy the GF or am saying I enjoyed the CC more BTW). Finals are about the occasion as much as the quality of the game or teams taking part.

IMO, this whole thing is nonsensical sour grapes.

Any of the teams who won trophies following the Wigan golden age - and that includes the indomitable Bradford and Saints sides of the 2000s - were a poor second compared to what had gone before. Nothing Britain has produced before or since could compare with the Wigan side that beat Brisbane in Aus. That Wigan team was freakish it was so good. The combination of talent and experience in one team will never be equalled. Even under John Dorahy as coach, it managed to win trophies. Even under-strength, they were too much for the Aussie champs.

But it's a pointless comparison. Another time, another place. Different social and economic circs etc. It doesn't mean anything. It's like saying the Spartans were better fighters than the SAS. There's no way to test it.

Most of the Saints fans' postings seem to be saying that Saints need to learn from Wigan. An attitude I endorse. They may not like it but they are being realistic. Their last super team wouldn't exist now as it was built around star-players, many of whom would probably be on their way to Union or the NRL (just as Wigan's 1994 vintage would have been). Wigan are leading the way in the current era, and Saints need to follow.

Saints team of 2006, which broke the salary cap btw, had no competition at all. Leeds were poor, Bradford were poor and Wigan were all poor that season. There biggest challengers were Hull with no GF experience at all and even they proved to be a one-season wonder. Any decent team would have wonthe double that year.

It's ok, normality will resume next season. The bookies have declared 2014 the year of the Wire by making them favourites to win the Grand Final, with St Helens (!!!) second favourites.

I did think this at the time and as Bilko said on twitter people were more interested in our great escape than their double.



We've been told we had the easiest cup draw ever but there's that year was similar.

They had Doncaster h, Bradford h, Catalans h, Hull KR and Huddersfield.

That's two championship teams and the 4th, 9th and bottom super league teams. They also only beat Hull in the play offs who, whilst good that year, are hardly play off veterans.

That's not to say Saints weren't great that year it's just that it can take some luck to do the double.

We did have an easier Cup draw than in the past.
I'm ok with that as I don't remember anyone saying we had a tough draw in 2011 when we beat Leeds in the Final, Saints in the semi and Wire at their place in the quarters.
The GF play offs we beat the other three of the Super League top four in winning the trophy. No easy draw there!
A great win and very well deserved!

In 2011 we had an harder CC draw than Leeds did to win the GF that year

What cladding

It's on its way I believe.

Correct and anyone who supports the play off concept can have no complaints over Wigan's win given we played and beat every team who finished above us in the league to get to and win the GF.

As to the CC if you get a lucky draw, you get a lucky draw. It's a pure knock out competition.

I can't remember what sort of luck we had with the CC draw in the 80's/90's so this years path to the CC will all be just the same and forgotten by history. The winners won't be.

We always seemed to have tough semi finals, though I think we played York in a semi once