At the risk of giving you yet another bite, my posts have slowed down drastically throughout this season to a point now where I rarely comment.

By all means laugh about this, but it's not our imagination that financially we are falling far, far behind Rugby Union, not to mention the NRL - who as they are also very keen to take our best players - can not be regarded as friends.

How anyone in the game can seriously try to present 2012 as a good season - bearing in mind the Bradford debacle and the stories coming out of Salford - is beyond me.

I've read this thread with a great deal of interest, and, tbh, dismay at the thoughts expressed....I understand and agree with a lot of them.

I'm not quite as pessimistic at the moment as others regarding match attendance, I will probably renew my ST, but it's certainly got me thinking.

As Bilko has rightly stated, what a sad state of affairs the RL is now!

I preferred it when the league leaders meant you were champions, rewarded for your hard work and success for over the course of the season.
With this we had the Premiership competition which was something like the current playoffs. We do need to playoffs for financial reasons, but the RFL need to devise a plan to keep a playoffs without killing off the league.
Maybe something along the lines of: League leaders are granted a place in the grand final. the the remaining 4/6 teams go into a play off system to earn the chance to meet the LL in the final.

I posted this on facebook on Saturday after the Saints vs Wire game and I got quite a response:
Can see why people aren't putting money into RL anymore,. The standard of refereeing is abysmal, the quality has dropped since the franchises came in when they were supposed to make it better. Teams are going into administration then they're not being punished properly so there's no incentive to run a club properly. And above all; There's a horrific trend in rewarding mediocrity. Twice in a row fifth place are to be in the grand final. 8th place were in the playoffs when they've lost more games than they've won.

For 5th place to win the league they should have to beat every single team above them but they dont. They should now have to play the loser of today's game before they can reach the final.

I have a feeling Wigan may end up moving to Union not through choice but being forced. Theres no way they can sustain a club of that size if the game becomes part time and teams like Warrington will probably follow suit. Its not going to be soon but if the League carries on how it is at the moment it will happen. A team like Wigan or Warrington will probably be allowed immediately into the highest division as the support we have is much bigger than any other team and I cant see the most loyal fans in the league dropping off if we moved to Union. I dont want it to happen, obviously, but I dont think theres going to be any other way soon. Unless we can get those other 9 teams that can spend to the cap to form a breakaway league.

I know it is an odd response to have, but having most of the complaints laid out so simply makes me feel [iless[/i pessimistic, not more. It isn't an inevitable regress, not by any means. There is still hope, and if the sport is dying a slow death, all the more time for one spark to do something about it.

Agree with everything you have said Bilko, i too am disillusioned with the standard of Rugby this season, you cant count on 1 hand the intensity of good games on Sky, needs to be some straight talking in the close season to get this great game of ours back on track.

That's it. The intensity being the big thing. The regular season doesn't matter one bit towards the end goal anymore.

Maurice Watkins is right now undertaking a review of Rugby League in its entirety, it does make me wonder though how he will consult with us fans.
Crowds are on the increase, yes, but Saints were responsible for a lot of that growth comparing their previous season at Widnes to this year at Langtree.

Wire were top of the league last year and didn't compete in the GF. Wigan top this year and the same outcome. The winners of the GF are labelled the Champions but no one last year seriously considered Leeds the best team in the League. If they beat Wire this Saturday the same feeling will abound.
SL has managed to separate the "Champions" from the "Best team in the League". How we reconcile this I don't know as the revenue from the GF is essential.

I'm the odd one out here in that I think it should be top eight for numbers sake. The play off to me should be 1 v 8, 2 v 7 etc so we'd have eight team the first week, four the second week then the final. All knockout games where fans are more likely to turn up.

After 127 years I think reality is hitting us hard. For the first 100 years we had an almost unlimited supply of former Union players who came to League for the money. From 1995/6 the supply stopped like a light switch effect when Union went pro. We then brought over top quality NRL players as the £sterling was excellent v the $AUD. The £ then devalued and the tax breaks were withdrawn by the UK government. Top quality NRL players no longer come here. The few remaining are now back on the plane home.
We are now left with what we in RL can produce ourselves and it isn't all that great at the moment. There are too many clubs who have allowed youth development in their area go down hill.

My remedy would be to reschedule the number of club trained players in a squad from 8 in the 25 to 8 in the match day 17. Clubs would then be dependent on their youth development. Club trained would also mean 3 years at the club by 18 years of age and not 21 as now. That would prevent certain SL clubs from cherry picking the best talent from other clubs scholarships and academies by offering massive signing on fees and salaries.

The club that finishes top needs to be rewarded more and the SL fixture made more meaningful. Not too difficult, I wonder what Maurice Watkins will come up with!

Over on Redvee.net DD has stopped writing as well, so you are not on your own Bilko.

The only way we will reverse this rot is dramatic reform. It's always mentioned, but a ten tiered league is the way forward - similar to the format mentioned in one of the first couple of posts by the Warrington Mod.

It can sound like sour grapes coming from a supporter of a team that didn't make the final, but if Leeds win on Saturday then it will make the competition an absolute farce. Last year it was great to see someone from outside the top 2 win it, but a repeat of it borders the ridiculous.

Agree entirely, as someone who likes both football and Rugby League its now getting to be quite an easy choice as to what to spend money on. Although i did purchase a half season ticket this season, I wish i hadnt as i had no money left to spend on the playoffs. The best games i got for my half season ticket were the Bradford and Saints ones, both we lost having only 12 men. The other games Salford, Hull, Cas and Widnes were either big wins, or games that we played awful but still won. That shouldnt be the case in the league, you should get punished for not playing well.

At the moment i cant see myself going to any of the 27 regular season games next season, I will save money for the cups and playoffs and spend the rest of my money on watching my football team, who compete in a league where every match matters and where if you dont turn up, you will get beat 9 times out of 10.

I hope the RFL/Super League take note of some of the comments. I dont personally know how it can be changed but get rid of the current playoff format for sure. If we have to have 8 teams then make it 1v8, 2v7 etc and stop this ridiculous 2nd chance thing. At the moment us and Saints lose a game but dont get a 2nd chance but Wire do? I would go 6 team playoff system like the NFL use, top 2 get a bye with 3v6 and 4v5 in Week 1. Then you can have the stupid clubcall thing or just have Team 1 v lowest placed team left in week 2.

On a personal note, i enjoy reading your comments on Twitter Bilko and hope they wont stop next season

I find it immensely sad that committed fans like Bilko and DD over on Redvee are feeling so disillusioned and disenfranchised that their enthusiasm for the game has fallen so low, and sadly I fear it's part of a wider malaise among fans, with many I've spoken to expressing doubts over whether to renew season tickets.

Notwithstanding the senior management of the game including things like the Stobart deal and the frankly ludicrous 'Clubcall' - which have been discussed to death - the product on the field is an absolute mess. It says something about the state of the game that my team Saints were able to bore their way from 10th in the league to 40 mins away from a Grand Final by simply reverting to the most boring, sterile gameplan I've ever seen in all my years watching the sport and the most scary thing is that, in some quarters, that will be, and is being, defined as a job well done. Never mind entertaining the fans or trying to play with any kind of expressive style - points on the board even in the most turgid fashion possible = mission accomplished. Most games this season I've spent checking my phone or reading the programme and to be honest I have renewed my Season Ticket more out of loyalty and hope that things will change than anything else.

Wayne Bennett summed up Rugby League's ills earlier this year when he said:



As a sport we need to rediscover our identity and what made us fall in love with the sport. It wasn't artificially close scorelines or a falsely conceited pride in this flawed concept of 'innovation' it was fast-flowing excitement where anything could happen at any second from minute 1 to minute 80, imperfect heroes going toe-to-toe and pitting their skills against each other. A set of rules and an ethos that rewarded attacking efforts to score tries, not 'completion rates' and 3rd man tackle wrestle techniques, not a game where five drives and a kick is the safest way to make yards downfield and hope the opposition coughs up possession or gives you a cheap penalty.

A badly structured playoff system that allows a team that finishes 8th in the competition to, with a straight face, be called 'Champions' and even 'World Champions' is one thing. But even that's academic if the weekly rounds, the bread and butter, the product the RFL and the Clubs are trying to sell to paying customers, totally and utterly stinks.

Bilko, wish you well whatever you decide to do. Your site's a credit to you and all Wigan RL fans.

I'm with you on this, I pick and choose matches now, with warington and saints being the favourites, then leeds and it used to be bradford. But other than that the matches have been pretty wretched, then factor in that the teams from 9th down are generally poor, yes there was the odd freak result us v widnes, Wire at salford, but these are exceptions rather than the norm.

for me the bottom line is the league cant support 14 teams, there isnt enough talent, add to that you can loose half the games over a season and still have a crack at being champions, its just not right, but fair play to leeds they have sussed the format of the season, and really only start playing in August.

maybe a return to P and r is the solution, but add a twist, if eighth up can have a stab at the tittle, 10th down could be relegated, with a relegation playoff, with the winner staying up

(Nigel Wood please note that last bit was a joke)

but as it stands at the moment I am more dissilusioned with the sport than at any time in the last 30 years of watching and playing it.

Do you think anybody in charge at the RFL will be surprised by the depth of feeling being expressed in this thread? What is being expressed is a concern that we have sacrificed the core value of Rugby League for the glitz and glamour of a mass spectator sport. The sad reality is that we haven't achieved either.

What is needed is a competition where the winners at the end of the season are rewarded as such. If we need the playoffs then the winners at the end of the rounds gains automatic qualification. We also need automatic relegation, franchises stifle spirit, for two seasons lower placed clubs are not under pressure to achieve, you can still be a wooden spooner and survive the franchise debacle.

Lastly we need growth at grass roots level across the board and to either decide we are a northern based parochial sport, or we are a national sport that really needs to raise its profile. Only with investment, committed people and the proper marketing according to strategic direction will this sport survive.

Promotion and relegation is needed so that we can return to a sensible playoff format without resulting in half a dozen teams having nothing to play for by Easter. But the fact is the game isn't in a suitable state for P+R to return, it would still result in the promoted team yo-yoing between the leagues, the gap between even the bottom end of a full time professional league and a semi-pro league is still too wide to justify conventional, football league-style P&R. The franchise system should have been a transitional period that sorted this out, leaving the game in a position where all of the SL teams are in a stable position, with 5 or 6 decent candidates in the league below, then P&R could come back. We all know this isn't/hasn't been the case, however.

Errr who knows. I've already dropped facebook.

It's a sad state of affairs when fans get to this point. I'm sure the winter famine will generate a bit of enthusiasm in us but the harsh fact is that I can get virtually all the RL I need from Premier Sports for next to nowt without getting off my backside and with the added bonus of avoiding all of the crap on Sky that winds me up. It's getting to be a no brainer and that scares me TBH.

If I could get premier Sports on Virgin, the decision would be a lot easier for me. Unfortunately at some point I'll have no other option than to watch Salford v Castleford as my weekly game rather than Melbourne v St George.

Quote ="Pemps"If I could get premier Sports on Virgin, the decision would be a lot easier for me. Unfortunately at some point I'll have no other option than to watch Salford v Castleford as my weekly game rather than Melbourne v St George.'" It's not going to be an option anytime soon either www.premiersports.tv/top/channel ... rm-update/

Quote ="Pemps"If I could get premier Sports on Virgin, the decision would be a lot easier for me. Unfortunately at some point I'll have no other option than to watch Salford v Castleford as my weekly game rather than Melbourne v St George.'" It's not going to be an option anytime soon either www.premiersports.tv/top/channel ... rm-update/

wigan rl should've signed bilko up to run their site. legend.

I'm the same as most people on here. Used to be crazy about the sport but now its nothing more than an afterthought.

UK Rugby league is in a dreadful mess and supporters will drift away en masse if it continues.

Quote ="Pemps"It's not going to be an option anytime soon either www.premiersports.tv/top/channel ... rm-update/'" Cant you get that freeview thing anymore where you can get premium channels? Is it not on there?

Quote ="Pemps"It's not going to be an option anytime soon either www.premiersports.tv/top/channel ... rm-update/'" Cant you get that freeview thing anymore where you can get premium channels? Is it not on there?

Quote ="MadDogg"UK Rugby league is in a dreadful mess and supporters will drift away en masse if it continues.'" Maurice Watkins disagrees with you. menmedia.co.uk/manchesterevening ... o-strength Quote Extraordinary – there is no other way to describe 2012, a year which has proved to be very special for me and the sport of rugby league. I have been a non-executive director of the Rugby Football League for some years, and I was honoured to be asked to become the governing body’s interim chairman in April, only a few months before I left the board of United . Rugby league has continued to make progress both on and off the field and is currently riding the crest of a popularity wave'"

Quote ="MadDogg"UK Rugby league is in a dreadful mess and supporters will drift away en masse if it continues.'" Maurice Watkins disagrees with you. menmedia.co.uk/manchesterevening ... o-strength Quote Extraordinary – there is no other way to describe 2012, a year which has proved to be very special for me and the sport of rugby league. I have been a non-executive director of the Rugby Football League for some years, and I was honoured to be asked to become the governing body’s interim chairman in April, only a few months before I left the board of United . Rugby league has continued to make progress both on and off the field and is currently riding the crest of a popularity wave'"

This season in particular had been a bore fest, particularly for us, with most of our games being over before half time. Even Eddie and Stevo havent been banging on about how great our game is, so it cant just be us!! I think the CC QF was a turning point for me, possibly the worst wigan saints derby i have ever seen for intensnity. Yet the game on friday has actually reignited my passion for the game, it had everything and even though we lost i left the game thinking how great rugby league can be.

To all the disillusioned on here. This is my suggestion. Get down and watch the U19's next year. I get as much pleasure from watching the emerging talent from the young sides as I do watching the first team.

Whilst I agree Brian (I also try to get down to Orrell as often as I can), quite a lot of the U20 fixtures are pointless one sided affairs with only Wire, Saints, Leeds matches being the exception.