TBF I'm of the opinion that moving Sam to HB would easily have been the best and most sensible option Wigan could have taken.

Firstly I'm not one who's gonna rip into Green on here or criticise his ability. He's a very good SL player who can and will bring some very good things to the team. Sadly however we've lost what are close to or actually are world class talents in Tommy and Finch. If we would have kept Tommy I'd have been over the moon with a good player like Green but we haven't kept Tommy and we needed to bring in or find a world class replacement for him. Green isn't that player but i'm 110% convinced Sam Tomkins is. For me before he moved to FB he was already the best HB in the league and that was after half a season.

Secondly we've paid what was quoted as a considerable sum for Green. For me if we were paying big bucks out it needs to mean top players are coming in. A player like Greg Eden would be a top class signing for not only his ability now but also because of what he'll likely become. Imagine if we'd have signed Taylor and Eden for next season! That's two of the best youngsters out there to go along with Charnley, Hughes, Thornley, Faz & Hughes. It's future proofing the side whilst not compromising on talent.

Pat would have caught it with one hand. There was no pressure on the player from the opposition and it was a classic case of an inexperienced player making a mistake in a game he should have never played in.

Wane's choice of Murphy was beyond idiotic. It is a cardinal coaching sin to pick an inexperienced player in such a key position for a semi final. Has Wane made any excuse for this yet?



Well based on his performance this season we have already downgraded the coach.

After two years understudy to Madge all Wane had to do was maintain the same winning formula but he chose not to.

If you look back at interviews with Wane not long after he took over it was obvious he disagreed with the Madge style of RL and he was set to change it. He said he wanted to improve the side and win the close games we lost, games he felt we should have won under Madge. It was quite clear he thought he could do a better job than Madge by doing things very differently.

So he did change it not just by a bit to tweak it but he went right away from the successful formula Madge introduced.

I was pro Wane being the coach because I feared if we went for someone from outside they would change things and I was expecting continuity from Wane. I thought that was the whole point of him getting the job. A smooth transition and continuity. Alas my fears were realised by the very man I thought would continue the Madge dynasty.

If you have such courage in your own convictions that you will move so far away from a proven winning formula then you have to expect to be judged on your methods and your results and not let off the hook because it is your first year in the job.

Wane has made a lot of mistakes this year some of which were so obvious every one knew they were wrong before kick off and got proved right but that is not what I am talking about. I am on about his whole approach to the job. He decided to do it his way and was well and truly found out.

I think Eden is completely overrated and another example of sky overhyping a player off the back of a couple of decent games. Sam simply has to stay at full back, but he needs the forwards to lay a decent platform and the halves to select the right pass. Finch has seemed reluctant to let his arms go recently and keeps trying the short ball to a 2nd rower and has resulted in so many errors. I don't think green and smith were out 1st choice targets (that's pure speculation on my part but I think dureau, soward and chase were all higher up the list) but if smith and green can fit in to the same structures after a full pre season we'll be alright!

Spot on.

We had a tried and tested approach which brought one SL title and a Challenge Cup win. It's a style that was adopted from the Storm and we've seen what success it's brought them in recent seasons.

By all means he could have tried something slightly different or new in attack just to freshen it up BUT the key and emphasis should always have been on an unyielding defence.

At too many points this season Wane has let his ego step in the way or reason and logic and it's never come off good for us.

Why do people insist on this?

Give me a Cronk, Thurston or Marshall over Barba or Slater any day of the week.

World class HB's make the team tick and give the other great players the space to work their magic. Tomkins is a frightening talent from FB but he wouldn't have done half as much over the past two seasons if Tommy didn't do the clever work before the ball got to him. People sometimes forget that or only seem to remember the actual line break. Very few remember the shimmy, dummy or perfect pass that creates the gap for guys like Slater to go through.

Tomkins would be a world class HB much in the mold of a Marshall.

He offers more from full back, simply. The role has changed to a running 3rd pivot and that suits sams game perfectly. I agree it relies on others for him to be at his most effective, but he is definitely at his best chiming in from 1.

Had he played on Friday we would have won. He gives the other players so many options. Both Tommy and Finch looked lost in the second half and were at a loss on how to open Leeds up and deliver the killer blow. Cronk, Thurston etc. would have won that game for us.

The fullback roll now is very similar to that of a traditional 6. Brett Kenny would have been awesome at FB.

I just don't think he'll get as much space or time next season and we need the most from him

Smith isn't the threat that Tommy is when he's got the ball. Tommy is so effective at giving Sam that extra yard because he's such a danger with ball in hand. Defenders can't switch their attention from him or else he'd be gone.

I think SW has done a good job overall, he has made mistakes, but considering its been his first season in charge it hasn't been too bad. It's a learning curve for him, and I'm sure after a few weeks contemplating the good and bad things that happened through the course of the season, he will make adjustments to the way he goes about things.

Far too early to be talking about a new coach.

I think he's done alright in his first season. I'd be willing to keep him on, on the basis that I can't really think of any other outstanding candidates out there to take over.

The only thing which annoys me was his slagging off of previous coaches Maguire and Noble for not winning semi finals, Wigan is about winning trophies etc which sounds great when he says it but when you then go on to lose two semi finals against poorer opposition it does make you look a bit of an idiot.

=#BF0000Admittedly criticising previous coaches (particularly a successful one) isn't too classy but he isn't the first person to talk up his chances of doing something and then look a bit daft when he falls short and he won't be the last. As an example of a coach doing it Brian McDermott when Quins coach said his team would win the GF and that others were wrong to discount them. I think they managed 10th place that year.

=#0040FFThey might have been below us in the league but during both semi finals it wasn't Leeds that played the role of poor opposition. The team got what it deserved on both occassions.

Poorer opposition on paper. If we'd played to our potential (which he keeps harking on about) we'd have won both games comfortably. We underperformed when it mattered.

if we dont win something next season i dont think he will be in the job. sw needs to find a way. and i like the guy!

His learning curve was two seasons under Madge. You don't take the head coaches job at Wigan as a trainee where mistakes can be excused because it was the first season in charge.

Who was saying when he took over it won't matter if he loses two semi finals because it will be his first season in the job? No one.



IL won't sack him but he can't be let off the hook because it was his first season. Wane was the one who decided to move away from the winning formula Madge had introduced so he deserves the criticism when doing so failed to deliver. Unless he changes his methods we won't break any pots next season and he will be on the way out when his contract is up at the end of next season.

That would be a shame as he clearly loves the club but that isn't enough to be a successful coach.

He talked his players and his team up to the media, all coaches do that. He is not the first coach that this set of players have frozen in semi finals for. We lost in the games that mattered because the players froze and because a very savvy player spotted and then ruthlessly exploited our weaknesses. SW didn't let a ball run out for a 40-20, or wave his arms at the ref while he should have been defending under the sticks, or hit someone in the head off the ball so that he got banned, or slice a kick to nowhere on a last tackle play. A combination of things led to our poor showings when it mattered and just like it all shouldn't be pinned on any one player it is unfair to hang it all on the coach. Who is to say that the potential of the Leeds team isn't higher than our own but that they simply don't play to it until September.

Re-read my first post

. At what point did I say it was Shaun Wane's fault we lost?

My criticism of him was that he'd criticised our previous coaches for losing semi-finals and has now gone on to lose two himself thus looking rather foolish. I don't blame Wane/Maguire/Noble for us losing in the past. They contribute partly but as you point out above it is down to the players. I don't exactly think Brian McDermott is some mastermind because Leeds won, it was a case of their players performing better on the night.

In fairness you cant blame Wane for the Leeds game last week. Sam was found to be injured a few hours before the game. The team were prepared to play with him and, seeing as he plays such a pivotal role, theres a fair assumption that him being missing has something more to do with it as Wanes tactics will have been made redundant with very little time to change them.

Not true at all. Tomkins got injured in the Catalan game.

But wasn't he only ruled out on Friday aft?
Or did I misread something somewhere?

I have not read through all this but I appreciate there will be posts defending and slating Wane particularly in the build up to the Leeds game.

My personal opinion is this. Wane has had a good first season as a top flight coach, better than I expected in truth.

He has made mistakes, but again it is his first season. The key now is how he reacts to those mistakes and develops as a coach.

Cullen at Wire came through a similar background at Warrington, club stalwart very close to the players etc and he started well, he did however in my opinion allow himself to get too close to the players and repeatedly make the same mistakes season after season which ultimately cost him his coaching career.

Wane is now at a very important stage in his coaching development he will get things wrong in the future but the key is that he does not repeat the errors that he has made this season on top of those.

If he does learn I have no doubt he has the potential to be a great Wigan coach for years to come, if he does not, quite simply he will be replaced.

Sam said yesterday Wigan realized he would be missing 2 days before the game.

Ah nvm then it was made out on Sky that it was around 1.5 hours before the match.

If you're interested in an outsider's perspective I reckon Wane's done pretty well. He may have over invested in the regular season a little but which newly-appointed coach would deliberately run the risk of getting off to a poor start by holding his players back? And before someone says McDermott, he inherited a team much more knowledgeable about winning GFs than he was and which almost certainly, maybe subconsciously, knew to keep a bit in reserve which resulted in their coach attracting as much flak as Wane seems to be drawing now. And be honest, Wane's been pretty unlucky that you didn't win at least one of the semis. Be a shame if he gets the boot prematurely, we don't produce too many great coaches over here and I reckon, based on what I've seen, that Wane could be a pretty good one given the chance.

I've read some but not all of this but as a Wire fan one thing that i've noticed is that it appears that occasionally Wane's mouth runs away with him.
By that I mean he allows his words to be used as motivation by the opposition.
I know Wire have done that.
Maybe it is good for Wigan to hear it but if I was a player and heard the same type of thing many times it would have less impact than if I was an opposition player and only heard in once a year.

Top level sport is all about 1%'s.
You don't give those away for free.