It depends on how deep the rot actually is.

The law of averages and such don't come into it if a team is losing because there is a major malfunction at the club. In the first half of our relegation season, I never once thought we would win next week because we were due a win. Things were going so wrong at all levels that I couldn't see where our next win was going to come from.

I doubt things are quite that bad at Saints, but it's clearly the case that Simmons is not the right man for that job. In addition, as others have said, they've lost world-beating players in recent years and not replaced them adequately. If the current Saints team has lost all confidence, is uninspired by a poor leader, or is simply not good enough - or a combination of all three - even the passion generated by a Good Friday derby may be insufficient to raise them.

Judging by the shambolic performance being put in at the moment Wigan have a lot in common with Saints.

Yeah but our feelings after 75-0 were about the dark days of the late 80s and 90s when we were your bridesmaids. I'd say the Superleague era has simply evened things up between the two teams, certainly in recent decades.

In the days of relegation when you probably should have been relegated, you'd have been hard pushed to find a Saints fan who actually wanted you to go down. That's not because we love you or anything but because we wanted the rivalry to continue, which it wouldn't have done had you gone down.

At this moment in time we are just as sh[ii[/it as them!

Really? We can go second in the league today! Without that blip at Widnes we could be top of the league.

Saints have been awful. They didn't even look convincing against salford.

At the time I posted it was 6-18 to London. So realistically we had no rights to mock them.

Well, it's moved on a bit since the boards went down.

Royce back in!

Not quite sure what to make of the Simmons sacking.

Is he a poor coach? - he doesn't seem like a very charismatic guy, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything.

Has player power conspired against him? Heard some odd rumours to that effect.

Or is it rank poor recruitment? Don't rate many recent Saints signings, while their old stagers are at times a bit of an embarrassment. I've never seen anyone contest decisions with the referee the way Wellens does. Perhaps he should put as much effort into leading the side.

IT WAS NEVER GOING TO WORK

Made my day, especially after all the "ape" comments from Stains fans early in the season.

Made my day, especially after all the "ape" comments from Stains fans early in the season.

Experienced heads leaving and not being replaced. Young players being thrown into the mix and expected to pick up from where seasoned pro's left off. Now a change of a coach after only a few bad results, to a new vastly inexperienced coach team. And finally to try and stem the tide Jamie Lyon an ageing Aussie signed on a do doubt humongous wage.

Why it all seems a bit familiar to me this.

Shame.

I thought he was doing a cracking job.

Dreadful recruitment and subsequently a lack of leadership are the main reasons behind the struggles of the Saints.

If Mcmanus is in charge of recruitment, sacking Simmons is very harsh.

They've a way to go before they're in the kind of position we were in the mid noughties, but they're definitely heading in the right direction. Great to see the scousers in disarray and long may it continue.

That really sounds like a panic measure. How old is Lyon now - 31?

He's not the answer to their problems by a long stretch. In fact, I'd say that re-signing former stars when they've veterans, hoping that by some miracle they'll regain their youth just because they pull your club jersey on, would be a bad move for any club, even one that isn't in trouble.

Who next? Longy?

Royce always seems to have the world on his shoulders and his demeanour surely cant come across to the players as positive.

Ive said to a few of my scouse buddies he was a poor signing as a coach he didnt do it at Hull and was slagged off heavily by the tigers fans who couldnt wait to see the back of him.

KFC and Rush will do well with what they have but like us under Noble they have the players who should be delivering far more than they are, but not yet please !

Well time will tell. But this is far from a rushed decision. Also it's not just the head that's gone, so do not think this is all laid at Royces door. This is a whole sale relook. Someone has to be in charge, but rather than the usual with the assistant coach covering the gap. There is the need to go further than that.

I think Noble is the man to steady the Saints ship, whether he can take them forward after that is debatable.

It's deja vu, all over again!

Its great isn't it, im dying to drag up the threads from 2006. The abuse and "lets all laugh at Wigan" was off the radar. Saddo seems to be very quiet on the issue and his little friend SaintsFan.

If Simmons didnt have full control of recruitment then I think to some extent he has been hard done by. The players that have left Saints in the last few years are far superior to those that have been recruited and I can certainly see parallels with Bradford's decline and the way quality players were replaced by poor players.

Also a big problem is that many of the Saints youngsters are no where near as good as people, such as Eddie and Stevo, hype them up to be. Foster has never been good, Makinson seems fairly average as does Dixon and I have always thought that Lomax was very overated and not much of a half back in the organising and creating sense, although he may make a good full back in the Sam Tomkins mode. Gaskell has potential but is still far from the finished article and could still go either way and Wheeler has looked poor this season and is never a centre. These youngsters have did a good job filling in last season but as the number of quality players that Saints have declines more of the youngsters are playing and on the whole they are just not as good as what they are replacing, hence a worse team and the results Saints are getting. Graham papered over many of these cracks but now he is gone the other senior players need to lift their game and show leadership. However again in many cases the senior players that are now at Saints are players that I would have always considered amongst their poorer ones, such as Wilkin, when they had some quality teams or they are just past it such as in the case of Wellens.

..... is great.

Can't help thinking Saints senior players have done a "Chelsea" they didn't like Potters methods now they don't like Simmons ways, hence the old boys network,and they'll end up taking a coach from another club ----again.