Goulding played well against Huddersfield IMO. He looked more assured in the role than Joel. It was Pat & Carmont (at least in an attacking sense) that was poor on Sunday, although I take your point over the course of a season.

It is laughable how people are showing a restrained disquiet over Wane after one game. It was a poor one but I expect us to perform better against Leeds, even if we do not necessarily win.

The issue is always going to be with the halves. Thomas 'can't kick' Leuluai shouldn't ever be first receiver. Personally I would bring Matty Russell in against Leeds and put him on the bench. He has played in the warm up games & early season a youngster is less likely to be destroyed by a good attacking side trying to find its feet.

Put Russell on the bench and then bring him on for McIlorum, move Tommy to 9 and put Sam in the halves with Russell taking the full back spot.

He has implied that he didn't agree with Maguire's tactics(drawing the teams in to making mistakes) and promised to play a more exciting brand (hence a lot of work on ball handling skills). Im not doubting his ability as coach, none of us know how good he will be and im certainly not jumping on his back after one game, i just think he is trying too hard to stamp authority on the team, and his expectations are very high. I read an interview were he stated he wanted to win every game this year, maybe this is why he didnt see sundays defeat coming!

So snide sarcasm and invented quotes designed to make the bloke look stupid ("I'm tough, me!"icon_wink.gif are not getting on his back?

Get a grip.

It's the first game of the season. As others have said, if the team is still misfiring in a few weeks time, we'll know he's out of his depth. Until then, cut him a little slack at least.

Cut him slack for not using friendlys why they are there?

Cut him slack for underestimating a pretty decent side?

I'm not saying Wane out or he's doing a **** job but he's made 2 very poor choices and we are only 1 game into the season which it pretty scary

Nail on head
Sundays performance was a continuation of where we left of last year, the difference being we can't rely on supierior fitness levels to scrape us through this season.
IMHO, Wayne or whoever is in charge has a massive job to turn this squad into serious challengers for a top four spot.
To repeat what has been said by many on here, we desperatley need :-
1,A quality scrum half with a good kicking game and the skills to run at defences, drawing the opposition, thus leaving gaps outside for stand off,Sam (talent wasted at full back) to expose.
2, Tommy at hooker in a fully fit pack.
3, A centre who can make space for Charnley (as good as any winger in SL) if the lad Gelling is a good as Deano says he his then give him game time.
I don't buy into this notion that young players need to be nurtured in the U20s for years before we try them, all the greats have made it from very early starts, Murphy, Edwards,Robinson, Gregory etc, etc.
As I said I dont think this will be easy for any coach to turn around, and I'm not advocating making sweeping changes, but if we don't start implementing some new game plans, results like Sundays are not going to be rairities.
Ever the optimist though, I think we will beat Leeds on Saturday.

Wane has brought any early criticism on himself.

Ever since it was made public he was the new coach hes been doing nothing but bragging how hes going to do this and that and how hes going to make us some kind of lethal weapon in attack. Add to that the way hes been less than complimentary about Madges tactics/gameplan in some of his interviews and i think you can forgive people for questioning him. The way he was talking our forwards were going to run harder and our backs were going to be so skillful and fast that they would run rings around the opposition. He was looking to win every game in his own words.

I think people have a right to question him even after one game and a friendly against Salford when the performances were dire and nothing like he had promised. There was no signs of what he promised on show, infact quite the opposite.

He may turn out to of been right as the season progresses but i think most people expected to see something much better than they have done so far and that is down to Wanes big talking throughout the off season.

Hard job to follow a great coach like Madge.

Its gonna be a tough task as madge took a bunch of talented but under achieving players and turned them into a formidable side.

Where does Wane go from here with what is, imo, a weaker squad.

Once your at the top the only way is down! Investment keeps you at the top and can we honestly say we've got stronger after losing Coley, Joel, Gleeson and Hoffman?

I cant believe the over reaction on here, as well as the other Wigan forum, following Sundays defeat. There seems to be quite a lot of anti Shaun Wane bile from some, for whatever reason, and I simply cant believe that people can react like this after just one game. It seems that certain posters on here would rather Wane fail than to succeed just so they can say I told you so.

There were quite a few games last season where we were as bad, and some in which we were worse, than we were on Sunday. Some people seem to be making out that everything was perfect week in, week out under Maguire and things were far from that. At times last season we were awful. People seem to be attacking Wane for any little thing that they can think of and much of it is simply unfair with people throwing wild accustaions and just presuming and guessing much of what they are writing. Wane can only do so much and once the players step onto the field it is up to them. Wane didnt have an awful kicking game, Wane didnt miss easy tackles, Wane didnt keep losing the ball, Wane wasnt a forward that was dominated by a weakened pack. The players did this.

Did Wane underestimate the opposition? No. Have we played any less friendlys this season compared to other years? No. Have we played less friendlys than other teams? Again no. Was our kicking game any worse than previous years? No. Unless I am mistaken Bitcon is also our conditioner so why is Wane getting all the blame for what they see as a lack of fitness? Do you really give Bitcon that little credit and think that Wane has just totally changed the conditioning without Bitcon's say so? We have played one game of what is a very long season and we will get better. No team should be looking to peak in week 1 and I am sure we will build and get better as the season goes on.

His comment after the game says that he did why else would he say 'i didn't see that coming'?

2 We have brought in more new players than other seasons and we have a new coach i think playing a full strength team in all 4 would be the smart choice

I presumed he meant that he didnt see such a poor performance coming. I really cant believe that people think he meant that he didnt see a good performance from Huddersfield coming or similarly some other demeaning comment towards Huddersfield.



When have we ever played 4 friendlies with a full strength team? Never. What does a full strength team battering Leigh really achieve? Absolutely nothing. If we played a full strength team in 4 friendlies then I would guarantee that the moment the team looked tired in the season then the same people that are blaming him now would be saying it is his fault that the team are tired because of playing so many meaningless friendly matches. Also I dont see how it is really wise to play the likes of Carmont in 4 friendlys when his body isnt going to hold up for a full season as it is. The spine of the team is the same and most of the players that have come in are squad players who arent even in the first choice 13 so they wouldnt have been playing anyway if we went with a full strength team.

Famous,
You are correct, when Wane said that he didn't see it coming he was referring to Wigans performance, not Huddersfields. He said that Wigan had trained really well in the week leading up to the game. The amount of lost ball and poor last tackle options were the killer, but to be fair the warm up games at Wigan, Salford and Leigh did follow a similar pattern.

One thing I hope doesn't become diluted under Wane is the mentality of togetherness. That IMO was one of the great strengths of the Maguire regime, it was never all about him or his tactics or any individual performances. There was always a big emphasis on winning as a team or losing as a team.

I still fancy us to turn it on against Leeds and most of this will be forgotten next week. I hope

No, it is down to Wigan fans wanting to see the best and expecting it given that they've currently got the Challenge Cup in their cabinet and only recently had to hand over the Championship. It's nothing to do with Shaun Wane 'talking big'. What crap that actually is. What do you expect him to do, talk us down? How would you feel if he told a reporter that he didn't think we had much chance of winning anything this season?

At the end of the day, colourful language like yours was all over the Saints board at the start of last season re. Simmons. "He doesn't talk like a coach. He doesn't even look like a coach. Let's face it, he ain't a f*****g coach!" And yet now I doubt they'd swap him for anyone.

People don't have the right to question Wane after one game, regardless of what you think. First games are notoriously difficult to call. If we're still seeing the same crap in a few weeks time, then it may be a different matter.

But

Just O/T does anyone know the last Wigan coach to lose his first competitive game in charge?

Early days, Saturday will be interesting.

And even more fascinating, would it actually mean anything ... apart from giving those who have already decided that Wane is not the man a great soundbite?

John Monie lost his first two, and he was cr@p wasn't he!!!

Exactly (and during that year as well). I think this is very true and given we have Farrell out for a game and Carmont out injured my thoughts on the squad (to get back to the title of this thread) is it is simply not good enough. I'd be astonished if we beat Leeds on Saturday.

I feel sorry for Wane because of this poor recruitment although Lauaki is supposed to be a player he wanted isn't he?

That said he has not IMO helped himself with a mishandled pre-season and a poor team selection whereby we end up with Lockers at stand off. That should only be happening if we have loads of injuries/suspensions not as par for the course as TL moved to 9 and Micky Mac goes off.

The signings in 2005 and 2006 couldn't be less like the signings we've made for this year.

Expensive, over the hill imports compared to young players with potential.

Thats not to say that I don't agree that our recruitment hasn't been good and the squad isn't up to the standard we would want but the recruitment strategy is completely different.

What the hell are you going on about colourful language like mine? Where have i used colourful language?

My opinion is that the players we lost where all top players and none of them have been replaced.

Starting with: Ryan Hoffman - awesome year last year worked hard in attack and defence all year. Hock now at 2nd row, not the same player he used to be, dropped a lot of ball on Sunday, did make a good break in the game but I do not think he has replaced Ryan Hoffman.

Joel Tomkins - another awesome guy we have lost and not replaced especially in attack made loads of metres and was strong in defence but probably a better 2nd row - Goudling well after him dropping ball about 10 times which should of gone into Charnleys hands and try time, apart from that Goulding and Charnleys defence wasn't bad but again I do not think Goudling has filled Tomkins boots.

Paul Deacon - another world class player not been replaced he got the boys round the park since hes been here he is probably one of the biggest losses should come out of retirement for another year lol... - Leulaui yes he is awesome player but I do not think him and finch play well together at 6 and 7 and I believe Leuluai is a WORLD CLASS HOOKER not half back. Maybe we need to try one of the young lads in place for Leuluai and see how they do, if we don't get them in now they might never get in. Sam Tomkins got his chance and look at him now!!!

Andy Coley - Maybe give a few good penalities away but the yards he made last season was unbelievable and his defence is another matter in the middle of the park - Ben Flower/Lauaki - I know its early but neither of them made a yard between them on Sunday.

Mike Mcguire - I do not need to say why but with his absence I believe we are going to go down hill. No disrespect to Shaun Wane but I believe Mcguire should have been replaced by another Aussie coach.

Our signings have not been good enough, the training has been different (from training in Scotland - freezing to training in Florida (More of a holiday if you ask me).

Kicking game well there hasn't really been one but ive never seen it so bad finch tried and was crap, leuluai tried and was crap, sam tried and was crap so we give it pat richards and he just put it 500 ft in the air but it went backwards so we lost yards. Speaking of Richards will somebody please take that caravan off his back...

Oh well i've said what I want to say but here is the team I would play:

1) Sam Tomkins
2) Josh Charnley
3) Ant Gelling - I'd give him a run out even though I believe we needed to sign a big name centre.
4) Geroge Carmont
5) Pat Richards
6) Sam Powell Or O'laughlin
7) Brett Finch


Lima
9) Leulaui
10) Mossop
11) Hansen
12) Farrell / Hock
13) O'Loughlin
subs: Lauaki, Mcllorum, Flower, Farrell / Hock

Tuson good defence but doesn't offer much as a forward in attack.

All this bull-crap investment with Wales and Rugby Union is benefiting them not wigan... Putting Wales on the map for rugby and letting rugby union take our players... No players have come our way and I do not want any of there players to come this way...

Signings we should of made is super league player

Hoffman out - could of got Jason Chan in why we could.
Joel out - rumours was him who played for England was coming over here jack reed
Paul Deacon out - Micahel Witt in
Andy Coley out - Andy Lynch would of been a brilliant signing

Instead we got Ben Flower and Gil Dudson!?!?!? I know we couldnt have signed all of the players due to salary cap but at least we could of signed one decent player we are suppose to be one of the biggest RL clubs in the world and we signing donkeys...

Yes early days... I agree hope all these players prove me wrong. Bring on the Rhinos this Sat!!!

[i"Ever since it was made public he was the new coach [uhes been doing nothing but bragging[/u how hes going to do this and that and how hes going to make us some kind of lethal weapon in attack. Add to that the way [uhes been less than complimentary about Madges tactics/gameplan[/u in some of his interviews and i think you can forgive people for questioning him. [uThe way he was talking our forwards were going to run harder and our backs were going to be so skillful and fast that they would run rings around the opposition[/u. He was looking to win every game in his own words.

"He may turn out to of been right as the season progresses but i think most people expected to see something much better than they have done so far and[u that is down to Wanes big talking throughout the off season[/u."[/i

Perhaps not colourful but way OTT, and displaying far more animosity than is justified by what we've seen so far.

If we're still performing badly in a few weeks, then I'll give more credit to such opinions, but cetainly not at this early stage (and certainly not to imaginary offences such as 'bragging' and 'talking big').

Come on man, you know as well as i do Wane has only got the job because hes Ians puppet/yes man. I imagine he comes much cheaper than Madge as well. The world and his dog knows he is not good enough to coach Wigan and i think you will find out sooner rather than later...

As much as I do think you have exaggerated in your post, I do think Wane set himself up for a fall with all the talking in the off season.