Can't you just picture Joel jogging from ruck to ruck, piling on top of everyone. Maybe getting ball in hand for 10 seconds in the whole game. What a bloody waste.

And we'll miss it cause we would have fallen asleep, best tonic in the world for having an afternoon nap.

several hundred grand for 10 seconds of work - dont knock it.

IIRC Ashton was lead try scorer in the world cup and only touched the ball about a dozen times

I bet he used his brain very hard for them 10 seconds though



Its the most brainless sport ive ever seen. Even in darts you need to be decent at maths

The whole transition to RU from RL thing was epitomised for me when Tuigamala - who was one of the deadliest centres in the world in Wigan colours (even running through half the Kangaroos team to score an incredible solo effort at Central Park), went over to Newcastle, where he was 'coached' by someone well-known like Rob Andrew, and when I next saw him in action, about 6 months later, looked to have had ballooned by about 3 stones. It was shocking to see the transformation.

It baffles me that we got such a good conditioner like Mark Bitcon from RU, but he must be the exception rather than the rule. So many of our athletes have come back ruined from stints in RU. Lee Smith was only there a few months and look at how he had become a shadow of his former self. When Iestyn Harris came back, he could barely run.

Yep, the players are laughing all the way to the bank, but for us fans it's totally tragic.

The aerobic requirements are very different especially in the backs.

I would wager that although they are carrying too much weight for our game to play a full 80, they will be more powerful than when they left league.

Aerobically especially in the backs the requirements between the 2 codes are massive and players are specifically conditioned to suit.

I respect your credentials, Jon, but I saw nothing in Henry Paul, Iestyn Harris, Karl Pryce or Lee Smith to suggest they were any more powerful after they returned. Quite the opposite in fact. Okay, Pryce might have been struggling with a mis-diagnosed injury, but none of these guys were anything like the physical presence on the field that they were before they left.

I concede that Smith might come good again. Possibly Union didn't have him long enough to damage him irreparably.

But at the end of the day, whatever happens in the gym, the thought of watching Joel either trudging backwards and forwards in the three-quarters, an uninvolved spectator while the halves indulge in the usual kick-a-thon (maybe getting the ball for half a second if his team-mates can move it down the line without actually dropping it), or rolling around in the mud in the forwards awaiting the inevitable penalty, just cuts me to the heart.

Michael Maguire reckoned he was the best athlete and potentially the most damaging runner in the whole Wigan team. I'll say it again. What a waste.

I'd agree with all of that. When playing 2nd row Joel was capable of some devastating breaks and often showed real power to score tries.

I do not know where he fits in within Union. He won't get to play inside centre. At outside centre he will be in a position not best suited much in the way he was a stop get centre here and I'd be surprised to see him in the pack. Maybe a No.8 right at the back but even then its a pretty stifling position.

He was IMO was really well suited to league. If he fancied a change of lifestyle so he wanted out of his Wigan deal he was so pleased to have signed (as he was saying in March) then why on earth not go to Oz and the NRL?

If he stays in RU I think this questionmark will always hang over him.

People keep saying there'll be big money in Aus once the new TV deal kicks in. We know for a fact that at least one top NRL club (Cronulla) were enquiring about Joel's availability. If he'd hung on another year, maybe he'd have got a really big bite of the Aussie cherry and, at the same time, been able to prove himself on a really demanding world stage rather than wasting his time, talent and athleticism in Union.

I understand that guys want to set themselves up for life financially, though I suspect he'd have been able to do that anyway in due course. In this day and age, with the NRL opening up so much, any British star who goes to Union rather than trying his hand Down Under will be criticised for taking the easy option, whether it's justified or not.

Certianly no-one will believe he was drawn to Saracens because big things are happening there. The only big things happening at Saracens will be, as you said in another thread, if we deign to teach them a thing or two.

I've seen quotes that he wanted to move down south rather than just fancying a change of lifestyle or wanting to leave Wigan. It's one thing moving to London but it's a completely massive step to move over 10,000 miles to a new country. This might not be something he particularly wanted to do.

I'd be amazed if wanting to go and live somewhere only 2 hours away by train would be sufficient reason to jack in your high-paying career.

Let's not kid ourselves, he went for the big money.

Do we blame him? - no. Will he still get criticised for it? - yes.

The amount of remuneration is irrelevant and certainly Joel wasn't being paid anyway near £300k at Wigan. They have a very short career and need to maximise their earning potential. Unfortunately at the moment that means RU calling given their lack of talent. Given the likely massive pay rises some will get by moving to RU it'll be a no-brainer for some.

No I'm not a RU fan at all, I just engaged my brain and can see it is a job, and therefore why it would be attractive to some especially from an economic viewpoint.

i was speaking in relation to raw power. Ie Olympic lifts etc as a test. In League you may not see this as they would have the extra fatigue from the more aerobic nature of the sport and as such were performing under a fatigued state hence it may not have seemed that way.

They came back functionally conditioned for union and had to get there bodies conditioned back in to the demands of League.

In my opinion and in my experiences Union conditioners are far superior to League because they have more money to spend on them and moved away from the old boys network of ex players long ago.

We are catching up now, but I would say the perceived differences occur because of the different functional requirements of the 2 sports.

There is a much higher rest to work ratio in Union and as suck the players do not need the same anearobic capacity and can shift towards anaerobic capacity and power without having a detrimental effect on performance, in the Union code.

You mean they're fat and lazy in Union?

i werent suggesting joel was on any were near 300k i was on about sa there and him being on that money i dont see why he cant commit to wigan til the 5 yrs are up. Its boring now all this everyone has a opinon and there all entitled to it

Indeed. You need to get over the fact that people can and will move jobs.

Because in 5 years time the offer might not be on the table anymore, never mind that fact that he could have lost out on (at a minimum) £500k before tax in those terms.

Fact is at the minute Union is viewed as being "the next step" for emerging young league talents, I don't blame a single one of them for going (as long as they do it with dignity - high Kyle

) it's up to the RFL on the whole to change that perception.

I'd prefer it if they went to the NRL, but at the end of the day, you could earn more money with less disruption to your life staying in England and moving to Union.

i think that is rubbish about union being next step not every player thinks like that i am friends with quite a few good RL players and they dont think like that

It's only viewed that way once an offer from Union is on the table. A quadruple pay increase will turn anyone's head but it's not an option for every single player in league

Of course they all won't, in fact the majority won't because they wouldn't have a position in Rugby Union, just as many Rugby Union players wouldn't have one in Rugby League. If Joels new salary is to be believed then no one with any sense at all would begrudge him having a go. At worst he could be back in RL in three years time, almost a millionaire. It's a short career.

Another one that still thinks joel getting £400k a year

, £400k over 3 years maybe

That's spot on I'm good mates with a player who went over to union & he'd never even given union a second thought until he was offered a deal. His feelings before he signed were basically can't stand the game & don't really understand it but the first year of the contract will buy my house so i'm going for atleast a year & if I don't pick it up I'll come back to league which he promptly did. As long as union can throw more money at people than we can there's always going to be young lads getting their heads turned & fair play to them if they take it.

Not if the break contracts to do it. If they go at the end of a contract then that is fair enough but most players are not on five year deals like Joel so if they have say 18 months left on a RL contract they should see it out and then go if they want to.

The obvious answer to the reply from IL is "Well why don't you then?"

We certainly need one.