Quote ="cadoo"Good summary from the WEP. [url www.wigantoday.net/warriors/Wake ... 5987299.jp[/url Cameron Phelps (defensively) worries me at fullback. He is NOT as good as some people make out.'" And he's not as bad as some people make out either. It's a fact of life that sometimes you're going to get made to look silly at full back, especially in only your first full season in the position (people seem to overlook this fact). Yes it would be nice to have somebody safe as houses whilst still having the attacking ability of Cam, but how many full backs do you think do? And don't mention Briscoe as he offers nothing like the stuff in attack that Cam does (who actually beat Tommy for try assists last season), not 2 mention 2 fantastic touchline conversions? His defensive game will improve week in week out, his attacking abilities are something you either naturally have or don't have.

Quote ="cadoo"Good summary from the WEP. [url www.wigantoday.net/warriors/Wake ... 5987299.jp[/url Cameron Phelps (defensively) worries me at fullback. He is NOT as good as some people make out.'" And he's not as bad as some people make out either. It's a fact of life that sometimes you're going to get made to look silly at full back, especially in only your first full season in the position (people seem to overlook this fact). Yes it would be nice to have somebody safe as houses whilst still having the attacking ability of Cam, but how many full backs do you think do? And don't mention Briscoe as he offers nothing like the stuff in attack that Cam does (who actually beat Tommy for try assists last season), not 2 mention 2 fantastic touchline conversions? His defensive game will improve week in week out, his attacking abilities are something you either naturally have or don't have.

first thoughts are

riddell looked as though hes lost a good two stones, and it showed with his try, as he actually looked like he had a bit of pace (shocked?)

leuluai is definately not a hooker, when he went to 7 he looked a different player.

in the pack o carroll was very good, for his first game since last march he was really good.

and well done to stu howarth who in the last 10 minutes had a field day down the wakey right side.

tht my friend sum s it up perfect , i was worried at howarth in 1 st 20 looked very nervous but could be exspected and leulai was exactly how you put it

Awful game, poor performance. Didn't deserve to win IMO. Just hope it was a case of blowing off the cobwebs and not a sign of things to come.

And how would you know?

You were clearly in a coma drunk state then!

I don't know what you're trying to say

You think it was a good one? Perhaps I'm a bit of a traditionalist. Both defences were awful IMO. Hardly had to come up with some mind blowing plays to break through. Put it this way I wouldn't want to watch it again.

Quote ="cadoo"Good summary from the WEP. [url www.wigantoday.net/warriors/Wake ... 5987299.jp[/url Cameron Phelps (defensively) worries me at fullback. He is NOT as good as some people make out.'" Did he go to the game? King was NOT sin binned for dissent. He was binned for a late tackle (charge) on Riddell after Riddell had kicked the ball.

Quote ="cadoo"Good summary from the WEP. [url www.wigantoday.net/warriors/Wake ... 5987299.jp[/url Cameron Phelps (defensively) worries me at fullback. He is NOT as good as some people make out.'" Did he go to the game? King was NOT sin binned for dissent. He was binned for a late tackle (charge) on Riddell after Riddell had kicked the ball.

thought it was a good game to watch. our defence will improve im sure . well it can hardly get any worse. but enjoyed it all the same

grat news that feka and piggy are both looking fitter and healthier and very positive that we have the fight in us to come back and play to the final hooter we need to start at leigh how we finished at wakey and im sure madge and wane will put things right in training this week well done lads good run out

Some players get made to look sillier than others at fullback. Richie Mathers being a prime example. If it was a one off thing then we wouldn't have a problem, but it is becoming re-occurrence. I appreciate he has needed time to settle at fullback, but with plenty of game time last season and a full pre-season under his belt I would hope for a much greater improvement. It was only one game so who knows maybe we might see it, but on the evidence of today it doesn't look good.

There are fullbacks who are far greater in defence than Phelps and still possess the attacking flair - Clint Greenshields, Brett Hodgson and Brent Webb being prime examples. The standard of fullbacks in Super League is generally poor though.

How do you know his defense will improve week in week out? I hope it does, but I don't know how you could predict such a thing.

Well I can't describe 40-38 as "awful". I suppose your right it was awful in terms of defence and bad handling and such like. But I'd rather it was what we got than a freezing windy weathered friendly that say a low score. I suppose I was just pleased not to be bored witless. Most friendlies are normally boring, this wasn't!

Didnt go to the game was working but its obvious from the score we need to work on defence. Dont see Goulding mentioned anywhere but he scored two trys, how did he go on?

Also anyone notice who was the captain?

O'Loughlin was the captain. I thought Goulding did very well, didn't put a foot wrong and I was actually surprised how well he took his two tries in the corner, both were not easy to say the least.

Goulding started where he left off last season, he's really improved since his loan to Salford. I believe O'Loughlin was captain, we may have 5 captains now but we still go silent after conceeding a try.

I think the ref hampered the game in parts by checking his pea was still in the whistle



Defence was questionable in parts but with two more pre-seasons lined up, I think that's perhaps something that will be targeted against Leyth and Wire.

And Richie Mathers is still actually a decent player, who's now doing a lot better and settling in more in his new enivornment. Phelps has, as far as i'm aware played 21 games at fullback last season and the odd one or 2 in Australia. As a youth he was a stand-off as has been said. I personally don't think circa 23 games over his entire career is enough to sufficiently assess. Tell me how many mistakes did he make last season that resulted in a try, and i'm talking genuine mistakes - where he was solely at fault (not a freak bounce, and not a situation where most fullbacks would have been beaten)? I'd be very suprised if it's many.

Clint Greenshields, Brett Hodgson and Brent Webb have all been playing full back for far far far longer than 23 games, they have years (10 years in hodgson's case in first grade alone) on Phelps in this position so it's not really an apples for apples comparison. Cam was a utility back for the club, who's played at centre, stand-off, wing (check out Clint's career and you'll see he wasn't always a fullback either) and oddly hooker that we've slotted into fullback 10 games into last season. So 10 games into the season the guy has played at fullback for one of the few times in his career, and he's gone on and performed well by most of our standards and actually shown a dimension to fullback play that we were solely lacking when both Richards and Roberts had played there. To be perfectly honest i'm pretty amazed he's done as well has he has given the situation and lack of experience, do you not think so?

How could I predict his defence will get better week in week out? Well tackling and catching technique can be worked on and developed, creative spark, and the other big quality for a fullback - bravery (and lets be fair he's got it in spades) can't really be, you've either got them or you haven't. I've gone over Bilko's match reports (to try and use some views that didn't have my own bias) and I can't really find a situation last year where defensive lapses by Phelps cost us a game. Now considering I think it's fair to expect Cam to improve in this position, my own conclusion is what exactly is there to be worried about?

The common theme over and over again, from my own views, from my friends and family (some of which are fans of other clubs), from match reports both on Bilko's site and in Newspapers, and from normally trying to watch a game at least twice if it was televised, is that poor kicking options and silly mistakes (multiple times per match by more than 1 player) by pretty much the entire team over the course of the season are what cost us games. Now what was the 1 position where we did make a signing this off season? Scrum Half in Paul Deacon, who's got a good kicking game. The club and coaches would seem to agree that we're not doing too badly at fullback either.

And that's why I'm not worried. At the end of this season both Cam's and multiple other players contracts are up and can be either renewed or released and replaced with another player. If Cam continues to develop at fullback then fantastic, if he doesn't then we look for a replacement at the end of this season. I think we're in a really good position.

Seriously who in Superleague is actually currently better at fullback overall? My view is:

Clint Greenshields
Brett Hodgson
Brent Webb

So that's 3 players and teams out of 14? Not too shabby really considering we're playing a guy who's had less than 30 games in that position. And out of those teams which actually had more success than us in Superleague last year? 1 - Brent Webb at Leeds Rhinos, who we'll all admit are on average better than us in a few areas (yet surprisingly we've still got a very good record against). Let's just see how Cam goes on this season, but if he's only as good as last season (and you'd honestly expect him to settle even more with more games at fullback) then we'll not be doing too badly in this position. I'd like to think we'll start to make some cheeky enquiries about Gareth Widdop long term

That's really great to see Goulding having a good game, hopefully he'll continue to improve and get some consistency.

btw Cadoo, i'm not having a go, merely expressing a view

I was a bit worried by the amount of penalties we gave away. Too much silly wrestling stuff. At the time i felt each tackle was lasting a second longer than it should have done and didn't really feel hard done to for any of the penalties that were given against us. Discipline is so so important. Every time Wakey got a penalty, they scored, every time we got a penalty, we scored - simple as.

I realise that some wrestling is important but only at sensible times. For example we have a penatly away for lying on on the first tackle after a decent long kick. Wakefield were struggling to get back and our line was set and therefore we would have gained from a quick ptb. I think the players perhaps need to think on their feet a bit more rather than being bloody robots.

Nice run out in attack tho - Mossop looked dangerous and Feka was excellent. Thought Ainscough looked dangerous when he had the ball. Still expect more from Gleeson and Fielden, and Sam needs to get some longer studs in his boots the amount he slips over.

God Help us if "Twosevenzero" sees This!



Phelps had a bit of a dodgy one today, and didn't the above let us know! He doesn't like him with a passion!

I can see both sides of the argument.
Against - I think he's got a fair few mistakes in him & he's not great under the high ball or one on one defence to be honest!

Positives - Good Pace,brave,scores tries & his most important facet is coming into the line & providing a 2nd option as a playmaker to the 6 or 7 which creates A LOT of tries and leaves space/options for our other players! Plus, better than anything we've had there since Rads (You could argue Richards but IMO although Pat is far safer defensively he doesn't offer much going forward in that position and he is a far better winger).

Overall I think he;s been a positive and like SEB says I don't think he's cost us any games even if he has come up with the odd individual error.

Twosevenzero on the other hand thinks he's a disaster waiting to happen and he will cost us a big one soon, I don't doubt that as it's a bit like goalkeeper in Wendyball, your bound to cost a game at some point, I think he's got the cahoonas to deal with that if/when it happens and learn from it without it knocking his confidence.

Overall Today, good to blow the cobwebs away & Both sides looked far more dangerous when playing towards the clubhouse end.

We gave away penalties whilst having Wakey pinned in their own 10/15 on 5/6 occasions and again near the Halfway on 4th/5th tackle about 4 times! This provided the platform for Wakeys attack and they capitalised on it mainly down our Left Side defence.
We only got the better of the penalties last qtr when we came on strong and looked like the team with the extra fitness etc. albeit with Wakey down to 12 for the last 6/7 mins.

[uNegatives[/u
Phelps - 2 x mistakes for tries
Sam - But saying that he didn't do anything wrong, just quiet
Tommy - Not a starting 9 (I've expressed my views many times but IMO move him there last 10/15 of each half). What he does well from 9 he can do from 7 when he sees something on or can do better in last 10 of each half if needed. We need a steady 6/7 and until Deacon proves he's the better option it's Sam & Tommy for me!
Coley - Awful, a bit like the Coley of Old, His performances last season however mean he should still be near the starting 17 for the time being.
Penalties - Gave away far too many penalties letting Wakey out their own 10/20 and too many 4th & 5th tackle penalties which in effect gives back to back sets (At least 6 IIRC today).
Previous poster says penalties for lying on, I saw it as much for leaving hands in and being generally sloppy as much as lying on. Farrell gave 2 penalties away in his first 3 tackles for leaving hand in.

[uPositives[/u

Goulding - Took both his tries well
Howarth - Did ok, looked out of his depth 1st hour but as soon as we started going forward he actually demanded the ball and layed a hand in the last 2/3 tries with some good balls.
Piggy - Looked far better in 2nd & 3rd Qtr with him on field.
Joel - 1 poor handling error but otherwise played Well and is a real handfull with his deceptive size.
Hansen - Some real good solid hits
Prescott - Disagree with Rogues, I think he put some great hard runs in and takes 3 men into the tackle nearly every time.
O'Carroll - Some good hits in defence when covering across and picking up the drop off runner. Not big enough for me though and doesn't worry the defenders enough due to his size. Good 5th prop for me.
Mossop - Real Handful going forward
Feka - deffo lost a couple of stone (I've heard its over 3 from his peak middle of last year) and was a real handful continually dragging 3 defenders sometimes 4 into the tackle. Good footwork and pace/offload for the late try by Goulding(IIRC).

3/4qtrs - once the forwards got us to the right areas we looked like we could score quite easily.


Overall for a 1st game run out - 7 1/2 out of 10.

Well worth the trip.

i like phelps yes he had a dodgey game today but so did other s he put his body on the line many of times last season and i think he ll do the same this yr 1 st game back understandable

He tended not to IMO, that's the problem with Phelps atm, if anyone breaks the line and he needs to make a 1 on 1 tackle they tend to score. This could become frustrating if he doesn't sort it out as our best back up option is also our best winger.

First Impressions: Its the same as last season.