See, this is a large part of the problem, with some players it's more the fans perceptions and viewing somebody through the lens of emotion and feeling rather than the actual performances they have put out. I'm just glad that coaches and players view hours of video tape rather than trying to analyse performances from memory.

A perfect example is the perception that Fielden 'gets smashed around the park' (sorry to quote cadoo there as he was making some valid and fair points), 'gets dominated in the tackle', and 'offers almost nothing going forward'. Now if this is the case regularly, then explain how in the blue hell he makes the metres and tackle busts that he does? Do we have some sort of matches that nobody ever sees that are somehow magically boosting his stats?

And before anybody has a go at the overall (over the course of a season) validity of statistics (which is absolute nonsense to do in the modern age when they are collected and analysed by professionals who are paid to produce impartial data), are they just selectively wrong (like some may feel for Fielden) and right in other cases (Like the same people may feel for Graham, Peacock or any other player who currently has fan respect)

I've even heard some people say that such and such a club has a 'world class' pack when mostly they have 1 great player in it, like Graham (and by their own fans admission last season he was having to do far too much on his own) or Peacock (who's not getting any younger at all, and the rest of their pack are not close to his standard), or Morley (who again isn't getting younger, and Carvell isn't close to his standard either).

Lets see how the pack performs as a unit next season, hopefully fitter, bulkier and stronger, then look where we're at. And for god's sake lets try and get behind all the players and try and bit a bit more impartial when we're looking at their performances (and keeping in mind that quality of defence is at least as important as barnstorming runs or crowd pleasing hits)

Without a fairer mindset, i'm positive that a section of our fans would now be bagging former players like Andy Platt and Neil Cowie, or saying how players such as Nathan Hindmarsh or Dallas Johnson were vastly overrated and offered nothing going forwards.

tbf tho thats only cos feka cant tackle

Fielden has a big year ahead of him, but Im confident with 12 months to go on his contract, not to mention a new coaching set up. We will see a big improvement in Stuart and if the euphoria around the place rubs off on all the other pack members then hopefully we will have a good year.

Fielden has been a great a player in his career, has he been disappointing in the cherry & white. I would have to say yes has anyone else bar Richards, Lockers, Barrett & S. Tomkins been impressive over the past 3 years???? I would have to say Fielden has just dropped down to the level the club has been playing at.

Not everyone has the ability to become superstars but every player in the squad has the ability to improve whether that be into a superstar like Sam can potentialy become or into a solid & hard grafting type player

I truly don't think that any player at Wigan is playing to their full potential i really don't.

At the end of the day we've brought in a new coach to improve the players and move the team on from what it's achieved in the past so i can't see any harm in the fans sharing IL vision that the players will get better.

In the days of the cap we have to judge players on value for money, Fielden does not provide value for money.

Getting value for money is crucial. I personally think Fielden is playing the role of the third supporting Prop yet he is paid World Class money, and there in is the problem.

Id agree with that.

Fielden is paid to be be our lead prop just like Mozza, Peacock and Graham are all paid handsomely by there respective clubs to be there leading man. The difference between those three and Fielden is at present there justifying there own high salaries.

Of course I'd rather have Fielden, but the point there is that Saints haven't missed Cayless as much as expected because of the work of there other props. Fielden on the other hand are best paid prop has been injury free all that time yet are pack hasn't performed better than the Saints pack. Could you honestly see Fielden pick up the slack like Graham has at Saints were Coley to get Injured?

You summed it up better than I ever could jon.

I just seem to mutter on.

stuart needs a big season. that goes without saying. As do all the forwards. were not going to perform well playing behind a beaten pack. feka to slim down, coley to run in with more venom. prescott to stay injury free. and fielden to lead from the front. that will do for me. If the coaching staff can sort that out then its a good start

It's probably been said earlier (just quickly skimmed through the thread) but hopefully having Fielden out of his comfort zone under Noble he'll be able to make a fresh start under Maguire and show us the form that made him one of the best props in the world.

I don't think we'll see any change from him.

His form has been pretty consistant since his arrival, but to to standard that is certainly not worth his wages nor what we saw at Bradford. There have been occaisions (probably count them on one hand) when he has a very good game and you start to think he's back on previous from, but he doesn't back it up the following week.

Although I support him as a player and like him as a person, I am looking forward to seeing who will fill his position next year and using the huge chunk of the salary cap that is used on his wages.

Brutally honest and it may upset a few supporters who struggle to accept negativity, but it's obvious he's been a poor signing and I haven't seen anything that indicates he will improve next season, unfortunately.

When Fielden was signed Maurice Lindsay basically said that he had been signed to do the work of two props.

And obviously he is on a salary to boot

Another sign of the crippling mismanagement the club experienced in the last few years of Maurice Lindsay's reign.

This coming season may be Fielden's last chance. Not just at Wigan, but as a well-paid sportsman.

Though he works hard in matches, as others have said, he doesn't do the extra things that would justifiy his wages.

I doubt there'll be any takers once he finishes at Wigan, unless he's prepared to take a big pay-cut ... or unless he has an extra-special season, which I too feel is unlikely given that he seems to have settled into his current role rather too comfortably.

I think that Coley has actually performed better at Wigan than a lot of people expected.

When you consider the up and down form of both Feka and Fielden i don't think that Coley has done badly at all and has certanly been one of Brian Nobles better signings along with George Carmont. Both low profile signings but both have delivered good value for money in my eyes.

What the current pack lacks is aggresion and leadership, how i long for the days of having a duo like Quentin Pongia and Craig Smith up front for Wigan.

Spot on.

I expect him to have a similar season. If he does it'll have been another solid year by most players standards but a poor one by the Fielden of old standards.

He'll more then likely go at the end of next season and I believe that even if Wigan want to keep him. I reckon he'll move back to Yorkshire unless somebody like Celtic or Quins offer him a big wage.

As for what we can do with his money it should be quite abit. With guys like Luke Bailey, Fui Fui Moi Moi and McArthy-Scarsbrook off contract at the end of 2010 there can't be any excuse for not bringing in a quality prop to replace him.

I dont think Stu is a person whos got his head in the sand.

He knows he will not get anywhere near the wage hes on again.No reason IMO if he reacts well with the new coaching set up he cant stay at the club on a smaller wage.

This is Fieldens first proper pre season at the club due to surgery in previous seasons. Rumours I have heard is he has taken to the new training regime well and is in great shape.

It will be interesting to see how he develops under a new coach with new ideas. He has played under Nobby for most of his career.

Overall I do not think Fielden has been poor for us but he has done nothing to suggest he deserves the high wage he is getting. I agree with what people have said he should be leading from the front ala Mozza, Graham and Peacock.

I do think he is isolated a little bit though. Prescott is developing into a good prop but is a bit injury prone. Coleys has improved but hes not better than average. Feka is unfit and an impact prop. So in reality he is out on his own.

Your last paragraph is largely true. He has at times been a lone-ranger in the front row. But when we signed Stu we expected to see a rampaging bull. We haven't seen anything like that since his first half-season. I still remember that first night he turned out for us - I think it was against Warrington. On the strength of that performance alone, I too thought we'd signed the best prop in the world.

I don't expect that, but I expect much more than him just to be a tackling machine. He was once a real brutal handful for the opposition - even the Australians found him difficult to control. To survive at this level of the game, he must make a determined effort to rediscover something like that kind of form.

It will be interesting to see what a new training regime - particularly a regime that is focussed on conditioning work and improving the weight and strength of its players - can do with him.

It may well be that Stu re-emerges closer to the beast he once was. But I suspect it's beyond any human's capability to make so vast an improvement that he can command a similar wage to the one he's on now.

He's always been in great shape though. If the new set up can get some bulk on him whilst keeping him as fit as he's ever been they'll have done him a huge favour.

If we look at guys like Peacock and Morley they've put natural bulk on throughout their careers and are big blokes now yet when you look at Fielden nowadays he looks no bigger then he did when he first came into the Bradford side. One thing Noble spoke of was Fieldens unwillingness to let his fitness standards slip and put abit of weight on.

he will need to perform like before 2006 or be shown the door

MM says he wants the players to 'bulk up' maybe fielden will be one bitcon is targeting to gain some size?

Although he was around the same size at bradford, so i dont know if this is the issue, or if gaining weight will make him a better player

Will be interesting though to see what the coaching setup thinks

Whilst I agree with you on principle, I don't see many young
British front rowers coming through (Graham apart) who could take his place.

To me if he is willing to drop his salary as Bailey has done I would give him another one or two year deal.

If you look at the other clubs message boards almost every team is on the lookout for prop forwards.

Agreed, people need to realise the last sentence particularly. They also need to realise that with the current interchange system, that the pack has to be looked at as a unit of 4 players and that it's not a simple case of just throwing in any 'name' when looking at making changes to it.

For example, Luke Bailey and Fui Fui Moi Moi - both good player, but very different when it comes to the role they perform and their particular talents. Having a 'vacancy' you need to have an idea of the job you want fulfilled, as it would influence which of those two you went for (just as an example).

Graham wouldn't "take his place", he'd be far far better.

There are several young front rowers who could take his place - he's no more than a Luke Burgess now.

And if they had £200k to throw at a salary, they would certainly find one . . .