I was on the Middlebrook retail park about 4pm yesterday. There was a family of Saints fans all in the current shirts and saints hats walking around Marks and Spencers.

You cant beat a good pre match shopping trip. Maybe they thought the game was at the Reebok Stadium.

BUT he kept on getting up every time and was there to take the ball in the next set. Graham is one excellent prop. Id have him at Wigan without a second thought.

Think Wigan fans are getting abit ahead of themselves, Saints have some very good young players coming through Wigan may have a new coaching set up but that doesn't mean success is a given.

Which Wire will probably try to sign up!

Based on the reserve team Grand Final, if you call these young players goog then Saints are going to struggle in years to come.

I wouldn't base alot on a reserve team Grand Final.

The fact remains though is that they had 7 players in that team who had have all played first team at some point this year, our lads stuffed them and alot of our 21s still qualify for the 18s. Takes some doing that whichever way you look at it.

What would you base it on?

- The fact Wigan won the Grand Final
- The fact Wigan went a year unbeaten
- The fact Wigan finished top.
- The debuts of Sam Tomkins, Lee Mossop, Sean Ainscough, Mark Flanagan
- The fact Sam Tomkins has been voted the best stand off in Super league and is the young player of the year
- The established players who have come through our ranks Joel Tomkins, Mike McIlorum, Paul Prescott, Eamon O'carroll
- The new exciting talent that are coming through Ian Thornley, Josh Vievers, Ben Davies, Liam Farrell, Chris Tuson and Joe Mellor

Again I will ask what would you base it on?

Its a good result for your young lads but that doesn't mean they will be stars in Super League.

Reserve League - Super League = Big difference

Yes Sam Tomkins, Lee Mossop, Sean Ainscough, Mark Flanagan have been good in Super League this season but Saints have had a few players do well in Super League as well.

What makes you think the Saints ones will then even though they got stuffed by ours?

Im not saying they will be but a wouldn't write them off because of losing in a reserve GF.

Why has Rommel's post crediting Wigan for winning the reserves grand final 34 -6 and collecting a trophy for their efforts been removed ?



Just posted this on the saints board but it seems to have been locked very quickly .

It's not just that though with Saints, they can bring all the youngsters through that they want but as proven this year with the experienced players getting older and picking up even more injuries it tells. Saints will struggle to replace the experienced players with the same quality and the youngsters IMO are only as good at the momet because of the quality they have around them. Same thing happened with us and it's going to happen to Saints, we know what's happening as we've seen the same thing happen at Wigan not so long ago.

I would love to see Saints fall like you have an start finishing 5th an below and there team to become weak, we might actually beat them then but I just can't see them going down hill that much, they need to keep Eastmond though he's key to there future.

But the big difference in Reserve league and Super league applies to every team, Saints included. But do Sam Tomkins, Lee Mossop, Sean Ainscough and Mark Flanagan look like they are struggling in Super League? Sean Ainscough scored 17 tries in 12 games, Lee Mossop got into a team that finished higher than us, Sam Tomkins was voted the best stand off in the league and Mark Flanagan was handed an opportunity to play in the NRL.

The fact that these Saints players that 'do well' in Super League played in the Reserves Grand Final and still got beat to a much younger Wigan side suggests to me that Wigan have the more exciting bunch coming through with far greater potential.

They've got somethin like 8 or 9 players over the age of 30, that isn't a good sign. They're going to need more than Easmond IMO. Pryce has been pretty average by his standards this year, and I think they will miss Long. Cunningham has only got another season left in him then it's only down to Wellens and Graham. Interesting times ahead at Saints but in the mean time I think there could be more success with Warrington and I don't think we'll be to far behind either, we're only a couple of key players short of being a top team. A better no.7 to partnership Sam and a nasty $hitouse prop, in the same mauld as Morley if I'm honest, hard to find I know but that's only what we're short of.

I said they have done well in SL but that doesn't mean the reserves will turn out the same its all about potential

Sean Ainscough is abit like Kevin Penny great scoring but needs to work on his game.

Wigan always bring good young players through but they are not always good seen as good enough an get shipped out, time will tell with this current group.

It's as simple as this, the better the youngster the more chance of them making at pro level, we have some of the best youngsters about therefore there far more likely to make it than those of the same age who aren't as good, yes they'll be odd exceptions but predominantly the better youngsters have a greater chance of making it to the top than the weaker one's.

I disagree. I don't know why Wigan fans are throwing the reserves GF around as if it was some kind of proof of anything because it isn't. Our lads could have just been knackered. They have had to play through injuries and because of injuries, just thrown in rather than graduated like Sam Tomkins. They will have suffered for it because the way they have been introduced to first grade has been nowhere near ideal. In fact, quite the opposite.

I would say that both Wigan and Saints are bringing through some talent at present and it would be great to see both teams' youngsters hit the spot as that would mean some cracking matches in the future and possibly some entertaining rugby at international level too. Personally I don't feel the need to say our team is better than your team but instead can happily acknowledge that we're both doing a good job in developing young talent, which is a very positive thing for the future of RL.

Well said mate, I hate the petty point scoring from all sides smells far too much like football to me.

I think both Wigan and Saints have some great talent coming through and I applaud both clubs for trying to develop it.

I'm not just throwing the Reserves Grand Final as the only reason. If you read my earlier post I gave numerous other reasons. I think both teams will have had to play through injuries. Wigan more so than others with Liam Farrell being ruled out for the season and numerous graduates into the First team have forced the club to play academy players in their place.(Ask Rogues for the numbers) No excuses really, you say they could have just been 'knackered' well they have played the exact same amount of games as any other teams. I would just accept the better team won and stop clinging to straws.



The argument was never really about whose side is better.(Although I believe the Wigan team is). It was justification of the success of the Wigan RL reserve team with a Dire fan, you took it upon yourself to comment. I too hope for more battles in the future seeing Wigan and Saints lads go for it and then join together to represent England and Lancashire.

Sam Tomkins, Lee Mossop, Mark Flanagan and Sean Ainscough are the reserves. I know we can't make any irrational assumptions that every player from that Reserves team will turn out the same but we can assume that we are doing something right to have had the success with the players mentioned.

It's not all about potential at all. It's about fulfilling your potential.



I think every player in the world of Rugby League can always work on their game. I have seen so called 'established' stars like Amos Roberts who has had well over 200 games in the NRL make the same mistakes Sean Ainscough has made but not near enough the creativity.



Under previous management I may have considered that a fair comment. But the new regime at Wigan has been soley focused around our young players. We haven't signed any players for next season, instead,we have chosen to promote from within. Our entire marketing campaign for Season Ticket renewals is based around the young lads at the club. We have used any space left over on the salary cap to reward our youngsters with long term contracts. Gone are the days when young lads aren't given an opportunity to show what they can do. If any players are to leave Wigan it will be through them not fulfilling their potential or lack of desire to make it at the top level and not through not being given the opportunity and going for the short fix with an Australian player which can only be good for the Wigan RL club and England.

Are you not expecting to sign anyone then? does that mean Ian Thornley, Josh Vievers, Ben Davies, Liam Farrell, Chris Tuson and Joe Mellor will get a chance next season ala Sam Tomkins and Mark Flanagan?

Bit of a risk if thats what your doing but can see why McGuire was chosen as its like what Melbourne did.

There's a possibility of other signings, Josh and Ben are possibly going out on loan to Wakefield. I'm pretty sure both Ian Thornley and Joe Mellor still qualify for the 18's so I don't think they're ready yet. Liam Farrell's a possibility though of seeing next season.