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If Hock gets a 2 year ban, and we don't sack him, do his wages still count on the cap?
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| Quote ="Katrina"If Hock gets a 2 year ban, and we don't sack him, do his wages still count on the cap?'"
i think its the wording is wrong, i think us "sacking him" still enables us to hold his registration? Basically i'm not sure which way they do it, but essentially there is a way that hock does not count on the cap and we still hold his registration. |
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| Quote ="Katrina"If Hock gets a 2 year ban, and we don't sack him, do his wages still count on the cap?'"
No and the club is employ to employ him in some kind of community education capacity. |
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| Quote ="Pie Eyed"Trouble is, even if we wanted to replace Gaz for the rest of this year, we can't.
If/when the B sample comes back positive (it's extremely rare that it disagrees with the A sample), we can sack him from the playing squad with no compensation necessary.
However, we still can't bring anyone in to replace him due to the way the salary cap works.
:wzor9wazSo say for example that Hock earned £100k and we've paid him for 2/3 of the season, that means that we've spent £67k (ish), and have £33k freed up for this year.
BUT:wzor9waz (and just like Feka, it's a big butt) - If we brought someone in for 1/3 of the season and paid him the remaining £33k of Hock's contract, we would have to declare :wzor9wazthe full £100k AGAIN:wzor9waz on the Salary cap, as a :wzor9wazfull year's
Wrong!
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| Quote ="Pie Eyed"Trouble is, even if we wanted to replace Gaz for the rest of this year, we can't.
If/when the B sample comes back positive (it's extremely rare that it disagrees with the A sample), we can sack him from the playing squad with no compensation necessary.
However, we still can't bring anyone in to replace him due to the way the salary cap works.
So say for example that Hock earned £100k and we've paid him for 2/3 of the season, that means that we've spent £67k (ish), and have £33k freed up for this year.
BUT (and just like Feka, it's a big butt) - If we brought someone in for 1/3 of the season and paid him the remaining £33k of Hock's contract, we would have to declare the full £100k AGAIN on the Salary cap, as a full year's worth of wages has to be accounted for.
That means that covering Hock's position would cost us £166k for a £100k player.
So basically, we're screwed for this year for that player - Thanks Gaz.'"
Also your understanding of the cap is completely wrong. The rfl don't deal in fractions of a season. Basically, at any one time the current amount of players salaries added up must not exceed the cap. |
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| Quote ="Pie Eyed"Trouble is, even if we wanted to replace Gaz for the rest of this year, we can't.
If/when the B sample comes back positive (it's extremely rare that it disagrees with the A sample), we can sack him from the playing squad with no compensation necessary.
However, we still can't bring anyone in to replace him due to the way the salary cap works.
So say for example that Hock earned £100k and we've paid him for 2/3 of the season, that means that we've spent £67k (ish), and have £33k freed up for this year.
BUT (and just like Feka, it's a big butt) - If we brought someone in for 1/3 of the season and paid him the remaining £33k of Hock's contract, we would have to declare the full £100k AGAIN on the Salary cap, as a full year's worth of wages has to be accounted for.
That means that covering Hock's position would cost us £166k for a £100k player.
So basically, we're screwed for this year for that player - Thanks Gaz.'"
  iS THIS CORRECT OR NOT |
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| Quote ="Jukesays"Wrong!'"
Please give me more than that, because that is my understanding of the rules based on this (taken from the RFL rule-book)
Quote 5.4.2 where the Club proposes to register a Player part-way through the Salary
Cap Year, the RSCM shall calculate the Salary Cap Value of the Player, in
accordance with the usual principles, as if the Player was employed by the
Club for the entire Salary Cap Year.
Comment to Clause 5.4.2: For example, where a Player enters into a Playing Contract
with a new Club commencing on 1 June (ie 6 months into the Salary Cap Year) and
providing that he will (for the remaining six months of the Salary Cap Year): (i) be paid
a Gross salary of £5,000 per month; (ii) receive benefits to the Gross value of £1,000
per month; and (iii) be paid £250 per appearance, for the purposes of the Regulations,
the Salary Cap Value for that Player, as at the date of joining the new Club, will be
£76,500, calculated as follows:
(i) £60,000 (ie £5,000 salary per month x 12 months);
(ii) £12,000 (ie £1,000 benefits per month x 12 months); and
(iii) £4,500 (ie £250 per appearance x 18 assumed appearances, in
accordance with clause 5.6.3, below).'"
So my understanding is that to register a player for 3 months of the season, you still have to declare the equivalent of 12 months salary for SC purposes.
However, because we've already paid Hock for the first 5 months of the season, we still have to declare whatever we've already paid, prior to "ripping up his contract", as it's money that has gone out.
Therefore, we can write-off 5 or 6 months of Hock's money, but still have to declare 12 months for anyone that we brought in to replace him.
Like I said, if I really am "wrong" then please explain why, rather than just a one-word dig. |
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| Quote ="Pie Eyed"Please give me more than that, because that is my understanding of the rules based on this (taken from the RFL rule-book)
So my understanding is that to register a player for 3 months of the season, you still have to declare the equivalent of 12 months salary for SC purposes.
However, because we've already paid Hock for the first 5 months of the season, we still have to declare whatever we've already paid, prior to "ripping up his contract", as it's money that has gone out.
Therefore, we can write-off 5 or 6 months of Hock's money, but still have to declare 12 months for anyone that we brought in to replace him.
Like I said, if I really am "wrong" then please explain why, rather than just a one-word dig.'"
we don't include hocks if he leaves after 6 months. In the same way that a new players salary counts as if it was there the whole year, a player leavings salary means that there whole wage doesn't count for the whole wage. |
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| That's not what it says in the rule-book (if I read it right).
It mentions players leaving after 6 months of a 12-month contract having their salary to that point, plus any "severance pay" all included in that year's SC.
Quote 6.1.2 Where the proposed transaction is the termination of a Playing Contract with
one of the Club’s existing Players, as part of which the Club proposes to
make a new payment (in a lump sum or in instalments) to the Player that was
not provided for in his Playing Contract or other arrangements (and therefore
was not previously included in the calculation of his Salary Cap Value) (the
“Termination Payment”), then the information provided to the RSCM must
include a proposed compromise agreement between the Player and the Club
(in the form of the RFL’s standard compromise agreement as drafted from
time to time) setting out full details of the agreement reached, including full
details of the Termination Payment. If termination in such circumstances is
approved by the RSCM, the Player’s original Salary Cap Value shall
thereafter be disregarded for purposes of calculating the Club’s Aggregate
First Tier Liability and/or Aggregate Second Tier Liability. However, save
where Clauses 6.1.3 or 6.1.4 applies, the Club shall retain a Salary Cap
Value for that Player for the remainder of the term of his old Playing Contract,
being the Gross value of the Termination Payment, spread on a pro rata
basis over the remaining term of the Playing Contract, notwithstanding that
the Player may no longer be registered to play with the Club.
Comment to Clause 6.1.2: For example, if a Player leaves after 6 months of a 1-year
Playing Contract and accepts a Termination Payment with a Gross value of £10,000,
then the Salary Cap Value for that Player for the remainder of the Salary Cap Year
will be £10,000.
Alternatively, where a Player leaves after 6 months of a 2-year Playing Contract and
accepts a Termination Payment with a Gross value of £15,000, then the Salary Cap
Value for that Player for the remainder of the Salary Cap Year will be £5,000 and the
Salary Cap Value for that Player for the following Salary Cap Year will be £10,000.'"
As Hock would be an instant dismissal with no severance pay, I would assume it to mean that we still have to count whatever we've already paid him this year, as otherwise we could (theoretically) spend more than the SC on players (e.g. if we sign someone for the full remaining amount of the SC when we've already paid Hock £x,000) |
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| Quote ="Pie Eyed"That's not what it says in the rule-book (if I read it right).
It mentions players leaving after 6 months of a 12-month contract having their salary to that point, plus any "severance pay" all included in that year's SC.
As Hock would be an instant dismissal with no severance pay, I would assume it to mean that we still have to count whatever we've already paid him this year, as otherwise we could (theoretically) spend more than the SC on players (e.g. if we sign someone for the full remaining amount of the SC when we've already paid Hock £x,000)'"
It pains me to say it but ask DaveO, HE explained it very well to me!
Best way I can describe it is that for each month of the season the club cannot pay out more than 1/12th of it's Salary cap for the year.
That means even if we underspent for the 1st 6 months by 20k a month it doesnt mean we can overspend by he same said amount for the last 6 months.
So, Hypothetically Hock was on 10k a month (I know he probably wasnt but it's easier to work out  ) then his SC Value would be 120k.
If he was "Sacked" and his contract terminated we could sign a player who's value is equal to or greater than that for the year and his wages would count for the whole year i.e up to 10k a month. |
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Thanks JS.
That makes sense.
It just isn't that clear in the Operational Rulebook that the RFL have online.
I hope that's true, although I don't really expect us to sign anyone this year.
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Just want to point out that Rio Ferdinand's B sample came back negative. So we have hope.
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| Quote ="Dougy"Just want to point out that Rio Ferdinand's B sample came back negative. So we have hope.'"
He didn't even test positive did he? I thought he missed it because he was 'moving house'? |
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| Quote ="Dougy"Just want to point out that Rio Ferdinand's B sample came back negative. So we have hope.'" He got banned for missing a drugs test, therefore no A or B sample to pass |
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Here's an idea. Why don't we spend Hocks wages on a replacement for Hock.
Just a thought.
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| Quote ="cadoo"Here's an idea. Why don't we spend Hocks wages on a replacement for Hock.
Just a thought.'"
We showed on Sunday we can cope without him so is a replacement needed? Mossp, Flanagan, Farrell, Tomkins, Hansen, etc. - all come through our academy (basically) with great futures. |
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| Quote ="cadoo"Here's an idea. Why don't we spend Hocks wages on a replacement for Hock.
Just a thought.'"
Nah. Too easy that  |
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The results are due out today aren't they?
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| Quote ="RB"We showed on Sunday we can cope without him so is a replacement needed? Mossp, Flanagan, Farrell, Tomkins, Hansen, etc. - all come through our academy (basically) with great futures.'"
Sorry I should have elaborated a bit further. A replacement for Hock from within our academy. Lee Mossop is doing a superb job for Huddersfield - a team placed higher than us and has earned the plaudits of Nathan Brown and from the people at Barrow (After just a month).
Liam Farrell tears apart the reserve league week in week out. It's not a high enough level for him. For me next season he needs a loan move to an NL1 club or super league if possible to enhance his development in a better quality league or even better if IL can link up with an NRL club we can loan him over to an NRL club to play in their reserve leagues which is of a much greater standard I believe. |
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) then his SC Value would be 120k.
