Lets see at the end of the season how many Sam plays. On the Burrow McGuire stats as I said previously Andrew Dunaman covered for both of them and certainly in Burrows case many if his appearances were from the subs bench.

Hopefully not some artificial limit on the number of games imposed by Noble.



He still featured every SL game Leeds played in 2003, 29 games aged 20. 13 starts plus 16 subs appearances.

McQuire started 19 and was on the bench for 10, playing in the same position as Sam.

If you are good enough you are old enough.

Dave

Longest thread in relation to the worst opening post ever.

If he was being " rested" then why play him in the reserve game???

Why drop an in form hooker? (O'loughlin aside) he was our best player on the field on Friday and is in an excellent vain of form. Why drop him?

If Noble is true to his word (

) he will pick players on form and not on merit - am I right? Well if this is the case - Why drop Sam Tomkins who was the match winner the previous week for an out of form Riddell? And why would he now drop an in form McIlorum?

The stats you refer to are a bit silly really. Riddell has been the starting hooker for all but 2 games (IIRC) and has played five games more than McIlorum. If you freeze Riddell's stats and allow McIlorum to get to an even amount of games and then look at the stats it will tell a different story because it is evident from the Hull KR performance that at the moment Michael McIlorum is the more in form hooker and he should be played against Warrington.

see what the weather is like first

Really? Tomkins in " I like playing rugby" shocked

I'd be more worried If he was chuffed he was dropped

We MAY be lucky.
[urlhttp://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/uk/nw/wigan_forecast_weather.html[/url

And how long did he play in the reserves?? 40mins, how long would he have played if he was dropped?? 80mins

Also what you didn't mention was that McGuire was dropped for the Challenge Cup final v Bradford. Leeds halfbacks that day were Sinfield and Dunemann although Burrow was on the bench ( I can't remember if he actually played)

Also Rob Burrow didn't really get a starting spot until 2005 with the majority of his games in the previous seasons coming from the bench.

Your defence of The Pig is verging on the embarrassing.

If the fat waster is so bloody good, then when is he going to start showing it?

On Friday he was shown up, badly, by a novice hooker who probably earns about 10% of Piggy's wage.

Riddell could leave Wigan this afternoon, and only you would notice that he had gone.

Riddell played pretty well on Friday i thought but still wouldn't be in my team for Friday.

I think i lie somewhere in the middle ground with him tbh. He's not been great so far but he's not been a disaster either. He can and will get better imo as he settles in more and the weather gets better.

He does need to get better though.

His stats say different don't they, or do you think that someone has made them up?

Just compare them with say Matt Diskin who many were tipping for International recognition.

If Piggy goes who will be your next target?

It's funny how you generally pick one game to back up your argument.

Oh and if you know that I am the only one I suggest you give up whatever you do and go on the circuit as a mind reader.

I'm still waiting for you to name ALL these top class young Wigan players we have let go.

Bollox to the stats, stats can be made to say anything.

He is supposed to be a senior player.

A highly paid ex NRL superstar who should be leading by example.

His lacklustre displays are an embarrassment to him, and to the fans of this once great club.

So, I ask you again, when is he going to start doing what it says on the tin?

I'm not picking one game in particular, he has been woeful in the vast majority of the games he has played in. Apart from his flawless distribution that is.

It's not 1 game though. He hasn't hit the standards we expected all year. Keep citing those useless stats on the SL website. Most people know they are garbage.

[urlhttp://www.superleague.co.uk/statistics_player.php?hs1=2009&hp1=374&hs2=2009&hp2=2075&stat=tries&season=2009[/url

There is the mystic stats of Higham and Riddell - same amount of games.

Whether you think Higham's is worse or better but only just - either way Mark Riddell has not been a significant enough improvement from Mickey Higham. Regardless whether you think he is better than him or not.

The fact is if Mark Riddell was significantly better than Higham we would not be having these arguments/debates on the matter because it would be obvious by his performances on the pitch.

I can't help but think back to somebody like Craig Smith when looking at Riddells contribution so far.

It like Smiths in his first year has been ok but probably not as good as we'd all expected. Riddell again like Smith carried an injury into this his first season and has picked up another couple of knocks during it.

I know it probably sounds like i'm trying to make excuses for him but i realise he must improve. I also realise he can improve and that overseas players need time to settle in.

We were all too quick to write off Smith, Richards etc and hopefully Riddell will improve like one of those.

Tim Smith had not played the game for a while before he came and Pat Richards was played out of position at centre.

This whole idea of "overseas players taking time to settle" is inconsistent because it didn't apply to Trent Barrett or Steve Renouf etc.

I didn't know Riddell was carrying a knock - if he has been doing then that makes Noble's decision all the more bizarre to include him. Why not let him rest and get fit seems as Michael McIlorum is in fantastic form and Sam Tomkins is in brilliant form as well.

Riddell must improve in the next few weeks/months otherwise it will have proved to have been a naff signing altogether because people will still question whether he has been an improvement from Higham. Make that a vast/significant improvement from Higham because if he isn't then what is the point in bringing someone half way around the world, taking up an overseas quota spot if we can do better with the players we already have at the club - i.e Thomas Leuluai and Michael McIlorum.

I was on about Craig Smith not Tim who carried a knock throughout the whole of his first season.

I'm not saying Riddell has been as good as we'd have hoped for as that would be a complete lie but i still believe he could be. I was only on here last week saying we should be looking only at players that would defo improve the side and thats nothing else would do. I agree Riddell hasn't been an improvment on Higham just yet but i feel he has alot more to give.

He missed out on the friendly at Leigh in pre season after getting injured in training and carried that into the start of the year after being a doubt for the Wakey game.

Even his iffy form has been as good as Highams best so we could still be proved right in letting Higham go and replacing him with Riddell.

I just think all us Wigans fans should have learned by now that patience will sometimes bring you results. We've rushed into far too many things in the past only to realise we maybe should have just given certain individuals a little more time.

The majority of people on this forum change their minds week in week out, one minute it's 'McLorum isn't good enough' then it's 'McLorum should be in the side week in week out!' ... You all did the same with Tim Smith, 'Smith is Sh!t'... Then it's 'Smith is brilliant' - Wigan fans are the worst for this, they are so two faced it's unbelievable.

Let's be honest, Sam Tomkins in that Hull KR game would have been smashed around the pitch, you all seen the amount of big hits in the game, they would have targeted him every time... They were constantly heading at Smith, and they would have done the same against Sam... Simple as that.

I presume that Riddell is earning substantially more than Higham did, so to say that Wigan were right to replace one with the other doesn't make sense.

Ignoring the Higham thing (for now) as Higham defiantley won't be playing for Wigan on Friday, and to get back on topic re Sam.

Are we in agreement that Tommy, Smith, Sam, Piggy and Mickey Mac can't all be in the same 17?

1) We don't know what the injury situation is particularly regarding Micky Mac and he didn't look well as he left the field on Friday.

2) If we assume they are all fit, which one would you leave out, and why?

I have championed McIlorum for years and been pilloried (mainly by Saints fans) for suggesting he would be a future International.

However, I believe (at this time) we would be better served with Piggy starting, Timmy and Tommy starting and Sam on the bench.

My reasoning
Piggy passes the ball better, makes more metres, misses less tackles and makes less errors.

Over to you.

Statistics, statistics, statistics.

As I said earlier, Fatlad is a seasoned ex-NRL superstar, and here we are discussing whether he should be displaced by an upcoming young kid from the Academy.

The mere fact that we are having this discussion should be enough to tell you that Riddell is not living up to the hype, most of which, admittedly, comes from you.

When I go to watch my team I want to see players that put in inspiring performances. I want to see players who look like they want to win. I want to see players who are willing to put their bodies on the line for the club.

One of the players we are talking about does that, the other one is merely additional weight that we are having to carry around the field.

Riddell is currently stealing a living at Wigan.

We were promised a larger than life character who would add another dimension to the team. What we got was a little boy lost, who looks like he can't wait to get back home.

I wouldn't presume nothing on that score tbh.

Higham was signed by Lindsay from Saints via Bradford making him think he'd got one over on the old enemy. He took Newtons place in the squad and more then likely his wage which will have been a good one.

On the other hand Riddell has been signed by Lenagan who seems to be a very shrewd businessman and huge salaries will be a thing of the past.

He won't be playing for Wigan thats for sure ! viewtopic.php?t=410925

He won't be playing for Wigan thats for sure ! viewtopic.php?t=410925