Cannot comment, but i think Tomkins looked far more comfortable last week than Crmont, so to single him out and try to justify his dropping on this to me seems n odd one, not least when we could have rested Carmont who did struggle last week and still put out a very impressive backline including Ainscough or Tomkins.

AGREED

However, some were agreeing Sam needed a rest. So it is hindsight for some.

We cant all be as perfect as you

Im not sure what you think goes on pre match, but its not really tests. He in my opinion clearly was not fit lst week nd played, cannot comment on tonight but it also appears Riddell was not fit and he also played.

I wouldnt say he was unfit. Just not very good.

Easy to make the decisions after a game isn't it???

Maybe S.Tomkins would of played and we'd of lost by only a couple of points or maybe won by many! Him playing wouldn't of stopped the Smith, Carmont and ref errors.

I put one to you, would you rest Hock? Looked knakered tonight, think he's due one

Who was agreeing out of interest. Not having a pop but you have mentioned it a few times in defence of him being dropped, i cannot remember any major posts or opinion suggesting he did look tired.

Ok remove the tests and apply ''Pre-Match Fitness Assessment'

A couple of people I work with, fella in the pub. Cant remember if anyone did on here, tbh, changed jobs in the last week, havent been on here as much.

Have missed you and the Noble debate

I assumed Tomkins was injured when I saw the team selection, when I found out he'd just been left out I couldn't believe it.

It was obviously going to be a tight game, the options he would have offered would probably have enabled us to win the game IMO.

Even if he does need a rest at some point this season to avoid burn-out, resting him against a team that knew they'd go top if they beat us was the wrong decision. A very bad call by BN.

Thats about s tenuous as it gets



Its not an anti Noble post i m making i agreed with the call given the conditions and the team we were playing. It seems i got it wrong, but more worryinly it seems our head coach got it wrong.

Thats me done tonight nyway trying to wtch the NRL on Setanta and cannot multitask.

This is why he is wrong........

2009 Best Strike Rate
No Player Tries Apps Strike Rate
1 Shaun Ainscough 17 10 170%
2 Pat Richards 8 13 61.5%
3 Sam Tomkins 7 12 58.3%
4 Karl Pryce 2 4 50%
5 Cameron Phelps 3 8 37.5%
6 George Carmont 5 14 35.7%
7 Darrell Goulding 1 3 33.3%
8 Sean O'Loughlin 5 16 31.2%
9 Gareth Hock 4 14 28.5%
10 Amos Roberts 4 14 28.5%
11 Martin Gleeson 2 7 28.5%
12 Thomas Leuluai 4 16 25%
13 Phil Bailey 3 15 20%
14 Joel Tomkins 3 14 21.4%
15 Harrison Hansen 2 10 20%
16 Mike McIlorum 1 10 10%
17 Mark Riddell 1 14 7.1%
18 Stuart Fielden 1 15 6.6%
19 Iafeta Paleaaesina 1 16 6.2%
20 Richard Mathers 0 1 0%
21 Lee Mossop 0 1 0%
22 Eamon O'Carroll 0 6 0%
23 Paul Prescott 0 10 0%
24 Tim Smith 0 11 0%
25 Andy Coley 0 15 0%

Rubbish..Tomkins on the bench should have been the call, Noble Forked Up and we are struggling to get into the eight, if we get knocked out of the cup there will be a very hollow feeling for Wigan fans.

The Trio of Smith & Tommy start with Sam off the bench was working a treat in the previous 3 or 4 matches. Why change it? Just so an overtaed fat aussie can get another undeserved chance in the first team? Sam didn't deserve to be dropped and there were occasions where we were crying out for a bit of something magical that we know Sam can provide. Piggy should be dropped next week but I have a feeling McIllorum will take Piggy's punishment and Sam will come back into the side.

I doubted Nobby when he dropped Ainscough at Murrayfield but he knew best and we came up trumps. I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt today when the teams were announced, but, this selection simply didn't work tonight. Piggy needs a few weeks in the reserves to show he cannot just simply walk into the side and put in zero effort.

I'll say it again but some of us said he was wrong before the game when it was rumoured Tomkins would miss out and you must know I have been saying Ainscough for Roberts ever since Ainscough was dropped. It is NOT hindsight.



It's not about resting players its about picking players, it's a subtle difference. Think about it.

Dave

the facts are whether sam needs a rest or not, he could have been on the bench and used for 30 mins or so. if anyone can say that riddel offers more than sam, or roberts offers more than shaun, they need their heads seeing to.what riddel and roberts offer to the team that these 2 wigan lads dont,god only knows (and noble apparently).

Roberts saved us twice tonight, something Ainscough would not have done.
Smith gave the killer ball for O'Loughlins try, something Sam would not have done.

We were not patient enough with the ball in the second half. We got a bad call on half time but the players have to accept that and play to the referees whistle.

Great game, that I really enjoyed, and if played again tomorrow could end up with a different result.

Wigans charge down kick (Smith) HKR - try
HKR charge down kick (Dobson?) almost a Wigan try.

That's how close the game was.

Tactically in the second half I think we took the wrong option, IMO we should have kicked earlier in the tackle count and made HKR play from close to their own line.

Yeah, I know what you mean.

But on the Ainsy and S. Tomkins front, people expect them to perform week in week out and play every week.

I only play ARL, when I was 18/19, just the before match pressure took alot out of me. Now at 21 it doesn't as I've gained that experience slowly and know whats coming. People may say it's the same, HA whatever.

I couldn't imagine the pressure that is on their shoulders of between 11k and 20k fans, depending on the game, it's alot to deal with week in week out and I bet it really takes it's toll.

I still think they are being developed the correct way, working on them for the 2010,11,12 seasons. The wrong way being Kevin Penny, Chris Riley, the right way being players such as Ryan Hall and Lee Smith, intorduced slowly and boy is it paying off now?

I sometimes wonder if Noble feels he has to make controversial team selections to prove the point that he's in charge. Ainscough has a weakness under the high ball, but I can't see what Roberts is offering that Ainscough doesn't. If he'd come in to replace a world class winger and done as well as he has you could understand him being dropped - but Roberts isn't a world class winger. He offered nothing in attack - clearly doesn't back himself to have the pace to go on the outside, and doesn't have the strength/size to make breaks on the inside. He could have walked off the pitch after the tackle on Dobson early on & we wouldn't have noticed the difference.

If I was SA I'd be wondering what the hell I had to do - how many other coaches would leave out the comp's top try scorer (even having played half the games of most other players)?

I'd love to know how much of the cap Roberts, Riddell, Smith & Bailey are taking up for the meagre returns we're getting.

How do you know that?

He may well not have made those tackles but going forward Roberts was poor. We failed to score given a lot of pressure and Ainscough is better at creating something out of nothing than Roberts.



That pass was a Smith special but how do you know Sam would have even been on the pitch at that time?

We ran out of ideas in the 2nd half and the half backs were not effective. They were last week and so Noble changed the winning team?

When I suggest get Ainscough in there he can't change a winning team but when he does and it fails the speculatuion is it would not have been right anyway? Give over, he screwed up.



The first half was great but the 2nd had far too many things in common with our early season attack.



Well IMO it isn't that simple. We looked a different team and a poorer one in the 2nd half and despite much pressure on their line had no idea how to break it.

Dave

How do I know.
Ainscough would have had the pace or experience to put himself in that position.

Sam is not a great creative ball playing half back (yet), he's more of a finisher.

How do you know they would?
What have you seen in those players in those situations to make you think differently, and how many times have you seen them?

Oh for God's sake give up on the "how many times have you seen them" argument. I have seen them in most of their SL games either live, on TV or on DVD.

I base my opinions on evidence.

Early season we were poor in every department, especially attack.

Then by more luck than judgement, Ainscough and Tomkins get in the side.

All of a sudden we do not look like a one dimensional attacking force.

Tonight both don't play and we run out of ideas. Coincidence? Not IMO.

I am not the only one to think along these lines am I?

Defensively Ainscough's stats prove he isn't as far off the pace as some would like to believe.

Dave

There's no way Tomkins should of been dropped for tonights game. Does Noble enjoy knocking their confidence.

You cant polish a turd and whatever way you look at it, Noble's decision was turd.

Regardless of the usual suspects riding their hobby horses here, the game was always going to be tight and a gamebreaker of either Tomkins or Ainscough was glaringly missing. if you're going to rest one fine but you can't afford to remove the spark that they provide from the team completely.

of course nobby was wrong.
as soon as i heard the selection i said that wed be ok if we start well, but that if we go behind, then we have no one to come on and add a bit of life (which is what was happening in feb/mar).

so nobby has taken out the 2 players who have been able to inject a little something exra, and therefore suffered when we needed a lift.
i can understand the situation with the back 3, but to leave both out was an appalling error of judgement.

given his brothers performances this year, i would have been happier swapping joel and sam, rather than go in with the bench we had tonight