You know what I mean though.

Rucking, mauling, lineouts and all the methods and techniques that go with that crap.

Take it you've never played Union properly then.

Ummmm how many more are there? Not sure today's crop of "Wigan RL Greats" is going to be in demand

or saints' lot

Learning from the tactical master............Noble ???????????

Well he may have been there trying to take notes on what not to do i guess.

I agree !

Robinson had no tactical play whatsoever.

In fact, most of the time I don't think he even knew himself what he was going to do with the ball.

Thus far the evidence would suggest more than Saints can produce.

I can't follow this up with a playful wink because I don't see the funny side of our next batch of youngsters now being targeted, while other clubs - those few who actually produce youngsters - seem to lead a charmed life.

Good luck to him, he is a top guy.

He will be succesful and then come to us

Without wanting to make an anti Wigan point, it seems that players like the fabled Sam (I personally have no idea how good he is, or isn't) are being stifled at the club, with few, or no opportunities. Were he at Saints or Leeds, he would likely get more opportunity? It is wise therefore, for union clubs to target the Wigan youngsters ahead of other clubs, because they are far more likely to be disenchanted in the first place, and are therefore easier pickings? Plus, the dressing room unhappiness that is talked about on here, being boo'd by your own speccies, and the lack of any real prospect of silverware must make talented kids think seriously about going to pastures new.

Pemps and all, Jason has the 2007 England World Cup forwards coach looking after his pack, and he didn't do too badly.
He is a fiercely driven individual, as my mrs found out when she asked him a daft question once.
I wish him well, my only fear is that his own high standards may upset others, though it has to be said, Shaun Edwards has got over that issue!

Good luck to him. Hope he doesn't nick any of our youngsters.

What have I got to do with this debate?

Your the leader of the Wigan pack...

There may be something in that, but you could hardly say that Chris Ashton didn't get first team action.

I suspect it's more to do with Wigan's reputation for producing quality youngsters, which goes back a long, long way. And with the average RU club's limited knowledge of RL in general.

Sale in particular rarely look beyond Wigan when trying to recruit from RL. Whether this is Jason Robinson's influence or not, I don't know. But those who are now concerned about Robinson's appointment as head coach at Sale have every reason to be. Robinson has been hanging around the Wigan camp for the last 8 or 9 months.

He's been right in our midst - so much so that folk were wondering if he was being lined up for a job at Wigan. More fool us. If there's one thing you can safely say about Jason Robinson, he knows where the grass is greener.

It’s more fooling us for not offering him a job if you ask me!! What can John Pendlebury have in favour of someone like Robinson? If you don’t offer these people jobs in RL they are going to go elsewhere and we can’t begrudge them for it.

I also don’t think it’s a case of Robinson looking where the grass is greener either. I feel he didn’t go to Union for the money on its own and it was the challenge it offered him which also made him ‘jump ship.’

He’s in today’s metro talking about the challenge that’s facing him at Sale now and although he knows he isn’t going to be the worlds best coach straight away he hopes he can bring the experience of 51 caps, three world cup finals, a league winners medal & two lions tours to the table and the guys will respect him for it and listen to him.

Wigan and RL’s loss is Sales and RU’s gain if you ask me and for once we can’t blame the SC for this one as we could have offered him just as good of a challenge.

The only problem is we seem to lack the bottle whilst RU appoint RL people like Lydon, Robinson, Edwards, Betts, Ford & Larder to senior positions in their game.

To be honest, I'm not really interested in Robinson's personal motivations. I'm more concerned about the danger he may now pose to us as a poacher of young talent, which I consider to be high.

I agree, I'd have liked to see him get a job at Wigan (if only to stop him nabbing our youngsters). But as to whether he's better qualified than John Pendlebury, I can't say. Pendlebury, of course, has been involved in RL coaching for at least the last 10 years, if not longer. Robinson hasn't done anything of the sort. But I don't know what they're respective credentials are in reality, so that's not a debate I can contribute to.

One thing I would say, surely we'd be better looking to employ those who had equal gravity as RL players, but left the game more recently and therefore are more in tune with new methods and styles - I'm thinking the likes of Radlinski, Farrell, etc?

Betts, McGinty, Farrell, Robinson, Ford, Edwards, Paul, BJ Mather, Ashton, Chris Mayor

That's nearly a whole Wigan old boys team either playing or coaching in RU now!

I have to admit that i like both RU an RL and watch both.

My major fear with RL is it’s so parochial in the way it thinks. I understand that people don’t like RU, you can’t have one discussion about it without some one saying why bother RU is $h!te. What these people don’t realise is there are things we can learn and take from it and use it to our advantage. But for some reason most RL folk don’t wanna know or don’t want to stick their head out of the comfort zone and look what else is out there and how It might be beneficial for our game.

RU seem to have no problems in looking at RL and saying I like the way they attack and defend so let’s take there players and appoint them to key positions at the club. RL would never do the same thing imo. Take the rumours regarding Eddie Jones coming to Wigan it had some people up in arms on here cause he was a Union mon! What they didn't see was the level to which he's coached, the things he won and the level of player he's worked with. J

I really hope IL can see the uses and benefits RU can have to our game and just doesn’t dismiss it as some want him 2.

I’d also take Radders and Faz in a 2nd as coaches. I’ve said it before but some will succeed and some will fail but at least we are giving them a chance aren’t we?

I'd never thought of Radders as a coach, but just for pure reputation and pride in the jersey he'd be awesome. Assuming he wants to be a coach obviously.

When I commented earlier about the 'grass being greener', I meant that genuinely.

I honestly feel that, for all sorts of reasons, RL is now the poorer option of the two games when it comes to young athletes considering their future.

My grandson plays for a local amateur RL club, and already, at his tender age, some of the lads - even those who are Wigan fanatics - are talking about playing RU in the future, not just because there are better financial prospects, but because the international dimension, and all the attached star status, have become huge.

RL on the other hand is desperately struggling to break new ground; if anything, it's sinking in on itself. We have next to no international game now (I think the ending of the GB and Aus tours was a disaster), and on the domestic front the only way many of our SL clubs can keep their heads above water (thus far!) is by the implementation of a salary cap that has basically ruled us out when it comes to the world's best players. The SC has even played its part in preventing us develop the next generation of home-grown stars, as we found out during the last World Cup, but that's another argument, and I'm not getting into that now.

You are right to point at all those ex-RL men who are currently involved in RU. I'd argue, though, that there simply aren't enough jobs in RL to make use of all that talent. Sure, we could find places for them, but out of the present SL clubs, how many are really viable? We've only got 14 in the top tier as it is, and, out of those, you've got to put questionmarks against the likes of Salford, Wakefield, Celtic, maybe even Cas and Hull KR. Crikey, you could even argue that Saints and Wigan have yet to assure their futures with all the issues surrounding their respective stadia. I don't think the Fords, Larders, Edwards's of this world would find anything attractive at all in RL now, compared to the opportunities in RU.

I have a terrible fear that RL's lifespan in Britain is limited. We keep going for anything Australian - it's almost as though Australia is our big brother, and as long as the game is flourishing over there, everything will be okay. The trouble is, Australia doesn't really care about the British game. They throw us their rejects and belittle all our attempts to compete with them. The way some of their commentators talk, you think they actually loathe us and would rather we were gone.

You're also right to say that parochialism will be the death of us. We are surely the worst in the world for this sort of thing. Wigan fans thought all was fine and dandy with the game in the early 90s, even though our chalking up regular 60-0 scorelines was killing interest at a domestic level. Now, Saints and and Leeds fans think everything's fine with the game, despite the fact that our talent pool and international presence have drastically shrunk. There's nothing like a bit of superficial domestic success to blind you to the bigger picture.

I only hope that what some people on here are saying is true, namely that RU is also building a house of cards that may soon collapse. Because the way things are at present it seems to me that that's the only way we'll make up any ground on them.

He's just passed his grade 3 coaching exams.

Excellent post mate.

You mention the lack of opportunities at SL clubs and them not offering opportunities for our players turning into coaches I’m sure that if even a self publicist like Hanley will go to a NL2 team others will be far more than content with the likes of Wakey, Salford, Celtic etc. The problems are as you pointed out we opt for the Aussie coach over the past players or the understudies like Vievers. There have to be enough good coaches at clubs who can make the step up to managers when the positions come available aren’t there?

RL needs to stop shutting the door on new ideas and new ways of thinking. If top coaches like Eddie Jones want to come to league we should welcome them with open arms.

For years RU struggled with the elite snobs who didn’t want RU to go professional because it would cause the death of clubs such as Orrell etc. They shunned RU players who went to League for the opportunities it gave them not only financially but skill wise. They didn’t want to lose the power they had in the game and resisted and resisted change for many years. Does this not sound familiar in RL?

We are currently struggling in a same way in RL with the smaller clubs who don’t want the likes of Wigan, Warrington & Hull to use the financial power they have. They are terrified of ‘heart land clubs’ being lost and some shun players such as Robinson & Lydon who have left us. They label them as ‘Judas’ and would be happy if we never see them again in RL. They, like those elitist in RU, are happy to watch a poorer standard week in week as long as it means it maintains the status quo. Would it be so bad if natural selection took place and teams that can compete do and the ones that can’t fall by the way side?

RL needs to get out of the rut it’s keeping itself in. Getting well known players such as Edwards, Robinson, Offiah, Ford back in the game would be a good start imo, people that care about the British game and the clubs in it. Then we’ve gotta look at overseas quota’s and the SC and try to work something out which encourages or forces clubs to produce new talent be forceful and don’t let small minded clubs find loop holes in it. We need strong direction from the top levels of the RL.

The sooner the British talent pool is expanded with more SL experienced players the more chance we have of a stronger international set up. This will benefit all the clubs even tho they don’t want to see long term.

Robinson's son is in the U14's at Wigan at the minute....how long for do you think?

Ex-players not having any involvement in Rugby League is a massive problem, and it seems to be one the game has created for itself. I know there are limited opportunities, but it also seems that Rugby Union values our guys experience and abilities more than we do. It comes across as a strange lack of pride in ourselves, we perceive ourselves as being 2nd rate





This is the root cause of all our problems IMO. We don't produce our own players or coaches because we don't have to, and nobody seems to realise that standing on our own two feet will produce a much healthier game in the future