it really is difficult and i wouldnt want to be managing the cap. I have a friend associated with the club, and he told me how many iterations of the cap they went through last year to accomodate changes i.e Dupree in and Singleton out plus the signings for this year

i suppose the good thing in our favour now with the changes to the cap is that you can pay Jack whatever you want and it will only cost £50k cap wise, but clearly the club has to be able to afford anything over and above that. You only need to look at Cunningham, Roby, Scully (i know he signed from Wire), LMS to show that you can have a good career over here and dont have to go over to Oz, especially if he's in a side challenging and equally getting good international exposure (if we can ever get the international calendar right)

i know Stu and think there's another poster who speak highly of some of your academy stars, but is all about timing and getting the balance right, whether that be through good planning or sheer luck. i think Isa may have stopped Junior getting some good game time this year, but bad luck for Isa, and good luck for Junior, has meant he's now getting good game time and looking like he can play at that level week in week out (and i know there is likely to be a dip at some point for him, but we need to manage that). From what i've seen on TV, a couple of your lads are looking ready or close to ready, but its bedding them into a consistent / successful team as you've been able to do over the last few years, and i think that makes a big difference to how they go, especially if your team is playing iwth confidence

onto the 5 year contracts, it is a slightly different approach, but hopefully we'll see the best of the players, whilst managing other recruitment i.e. Cooper, Isa likely to go this year, Farrell probably next year which opens up 1st team spots for Hill, Junior and Walters for example, plus all 3 have had good experience this year. There is no doubt we wont get it right with all our player retention, and we'll still lose some good kids, but we cant keep them all. I know i've posted on the Warriors fans forum and Forber could be an example of this, where O'Neill has stepped up probably ssoner than anticipated, and Leeming gone from starting 9 to bench, so highlighting the risks / challenge as we have him on a 4 year contract, with O'Neill and Forber both chomping at the bit for 1st team

I'd be willing to walk over personally but everyone is different. If Welsby is a home bird like O'Loughlin, Roby etc then I won't be complaining.

Agree with the importance of planning and there's been a big debate about it on Redvee. We've heard about this generation of new kids and how good they are for a while now, so I think patience is wearing a bit thin waiting for them to get their chance (Stephens excepted). It's important that they are drip fed into a settled team and with so many players currently injured I can understand why it hasn't happened yet. Maybe London was the opportunity to give Vaughan a run in hindsight, personally I was happy to err on the side of caution and rack up the points difference given they had two weeks off prior and another week off coming up. But when we see the likes of Farrimond and Eckersley fitting in and performing straight away it ramps up the pressure even more and I can understand the criticism.

I still think most are a while off, maybe Vaughan this year and the rest next year, maybe longer still. With all that said, Delaney and Stephens got their chance due to injury and both have took it. Given Wellens' track record with his interchange management maybe they will all only get in due to an injury crisis

When you say they a while off, do you mean mentally, physically, or both? The other question is, are the likes of Vaughan better than those that are currently substituting for injured players? The only way of knowing if these lads have what it takes is to present them with the opportunity at first team level, the reserves competition will do little to accelerate their development. It can be surprising what impact a first team appearance can have on a young lad. Farrimond is not the biggest but he has took the opportunity with both hands, it has given him the confidence to perform at a higher level, and it also gives the coaches a welcome selection headache.

Certainly both at this stage. Vaughan has been playing pretty regularly for Swinton on dual reg and I think that is a path these lads will follow after the reserves before coming into the first team picture. He was 18th man against London which would indicate he's nearly ready in the eyes of the coaching staff. I would have no problem picking Vaughan as long as he is given a fair go, unlike Royle or Davies on Sunday.

The likes of Burns, Cowen, Roberts and Bailey have also played for Swinton in recent weeks. Of those Burns is the oldest and most physically developed, he had a good season on DR for Crusaders last term and he should be close to an opportunity. Cowen has had some eye catching performances but the rest are still finding their feet by all accounts.

Below that there are some exciting prospects coming into the first team squad next year who I would expect to follow Vaughan's current trajectory.

Vaughan is too small for an edge forward and too slow to play centre. He’s another Sam Royle.

That’s why wellens won’t play him, despite the mass hysteria on redvee.

There are only 2 good youngsters at saints who haven’t made their debut yet. Robertson and Whitby. Both of whom are massively inferior to farrimond.

Mike rush mentioned a golden generation coming and all the toothless simpletons at redvee bought it lol

Vaughan is too small for an edge forward and too slow to play centre. He’s another Sam Royle.

That’s why wellens won’t play him, despite the mass hysteria on redvee.

There are only 2 good youngsters at saints who haven’t made their debut yet. Robertson and Whitby. Both of whom are massively inferior to farrimond.

Mike rush mentioned a golden generation coming and all the toothless simpletons at redvee bought it lol

I suggest that you watch the England v France Academy game from last night and watch Robertson score 2 tries and have a great game.

He’s not massively inferior to Farrimond at all. He’s just playing for a risk averse coach. Peet would’ve drip fed him in to the team by now if he was at Wigan.

You’ll also be proved wrong by Vaughan too not that it takes much to prove you wrong.

The bit i've highlighted is the one thing that most Wigan fans would be critical of Matty Peet, but thats probably being ultra critical based on what he's changed since he took over

there have been times where he has had Hill, Nsemba or other youngster on the bench, but hasnt played them. That could be because of how the game panned out, but equally, if they are on the bench, why not play them? Again, ultra critical, but the one thing a few would criticise him for, in terms of trusting the young player

Speaking of Farrimond, I'm pretty sure he was called up to the England academy squad.

Why did he not play? Was he not selected, or did we pull him because he's playing on Friday?

Been wondering the same. Hopefully it's because we want him fit for Friday and not because he's injured. There's no doubt he would've been selected if available, so it's either injury or us pulling him out.

Stu, you have been dragged in again!

I know, I should learn really! I did leave it says though to reply but after Robertson's performance last night I had to put him straight

Lmao at your last paragraph. When have you ever proven me wrong? Show me the posts? That’s right you can’t Lmao

You're a bit of a weirdo to be honest, always spoiling decent discussions and debates on this forum. Nobody goes on the Virtual Terrace forum anymore, I'm sure it's been mainly down to you (and your former guises).

he needs banning

@mods............

Still waiting for Stu M……..oops

Hi Rob,
Can I ask you a question,Why do you ask a question then answer it yourself,it's just like one of your voices in your head has answered it.

You are strange.

Strong rumours Wellens been given a 2 year extension…the timing of that announcement given the way they are playing at the moment will be interesting.

Lots of doom and gloom about next week from their fans but it probably comes at a great time for them. 0 expectation nothing to lose and everything to gain.

Be interesting to see how many they bring Friday.

I really do hope so!

Should we start a whip round to seal the deal

Saints fans will be hoping the contract wasn't signed and sealed - if it was Saints either face a big payout or a huge backlash when they announce it.

Got KC written all over it.
You'd have thought the Saints board would've learned that very harsh lesson about giving a legend of a player the top job with hardly any apprenticeship behind him.
Giving multi season extensions to players who've reached their sell by date can't be helping them cap wise either, fortunately not our problem.
I've no doubt Saints will be up for next week but if for whatever reason they're not then you can't see Wellens surviving, contract extension or not.

I still think back to their reaction when we announced Peet & his assistants (shopping at home bargains was it?)

Ill be honest, I wasnt overly keen either but its worked out very well so far

I would be very interested to read what our Saints friends have to say. I think this problem runs far deeper than Paul Wellens. Questions need to be asked regarding why significant contract extensions were given to some of their players in the twilight of their careers, the quality of recent recruitment, problems with retention that has not been encountered previously, and the need to promote players who obviously are not up to the job. Are Saints in financial difficulty? I hope not, we need to see a competitive St Helens team.