I would go with this. He has definitely improved as a player over the years but I would still say SR is his best position. He has had a good season and been one of Rhinos best players, but I think that says more about the season Leeds have had.

stands out in a poor team but doesnt make him any good

I think a good centre has good footwork which enables them to make room close to the line for themselves and their winger and Joel is struggling in that respect. The best centres in superleague over the past few years have been guys like Carmont, Gleeson and Gidley and all 3 are fantastic on their feet. They're (or where) a threat from deep now and again but they really earn their money in the oppositions 20m. I don't see Joel being able to develop that footwork but that isn't a problem as he's a top class 2nd rower and he should be moved back there.

As for Ablett he's made a better job of centre then Joel IMO but he's nowhere near international standard. He's a decent player at centre or second row whereas Joel is a decent centre but top class second row.

What a stupid post. He was standing out in a team winning three grand finals on the trot.

Granted, it is a poor team now, but let's not get blinkered and tar the player with the same brush. He hasn't just stood out this season.

The lad is a victim of his own abilities. He can play across the park as a backrower, loose, centre, or stand off. Because of this Leeds have used him due to injuries across those positions. Had he just been the loose he was through his junior days, just the backrower, or just the centre, he would be at the top of the game in either position.

how is what i said incorrect? hes been good this season therefore he ie standing out in a poor team (lets face it, Leeds haven't exactly been good this season)

btw, to say he will be at the top of the game in any position is laughable

decent, solid player. nothing more

Because he's been standing out for the last four seasons. Have Leeds been a poor team for the last four? That's why your post is incorrect. It is not just this season.

I didn't say any position either. I said backrow, loose or centre. Had he been used there settled in just the one of those positions then yes he would be at the top of the game in that position. The fact is, he hasn't, and his own ability to play various roles and Leeds shortage through injuries in those positions, has meant he has had to be used across the park. Which unfortunately for the lad also sacrificies his own aspirations.

Ah, English centres. My favourite hobby horse. We don't seem to produce any of the sort that really make space for their winger anymore. The best centres, in the classic mould, in Super League are all antipodeans. Comfortably our biggest problem in English RL.We produce a few "strike" centres, who run powerfully and can finish, but they generally lack the more subtle skills. Joel Tomkins and Carl Ablett (who is a better back-rower than you think IMO, but we'll agree to disagree there) are far from the worst English centres in SL, which, good RL players as they are (Joel could be a very top-drawer back-rower in my view), says bad things about the standard of centre we're producing.

I have some hopes for Kallum Watkins. He has some issues to iron out, but if he can work on those he has some craft and guile to his play, and very good hands at times. Him and that Evans kid at Wire seem to be the only players coming through that really play a classic centre's game. No idea why that is.

your interpretation of my post is incorrect, i didnt specify a timeframe so you concluded that i wasnt referring to the current season



OK then, in any of the positions you mentioned. better?

face it, he is good but not a world beater just like JJB, Bailey, McGuire & Burrow never will be

You said he had been good this season, standing out in a poor team. What more time fram do I need? If you want to go back further, are you seriously saying Leeds have been poor for four seasons?





Thnk you are missing the point here. I never said he would be "the best" I said he would be top of the game, i.e. regarded as one of the best and playing international or NRL, had he stuck to just one position. Why have you suddently come back with another four Leeds players as world beaters? are you really saying you have a blinkered view on Leeds rather than the players? Why not use other examples, like Sam Tomkins, Carmont, O'Loughlin?

I think that is because he is the only one who actually does it.

Since he returned from his protracted ban and sulk he has shown nothing of the skill and guile that earned his previous incarnation sevaral sycophantic followers.

This latest effort is again far too predictable and well....boring (althought it is obviously working here and until people see through it, it continues to provide jeff with yet more worm burping material).

I was of the opinion that jeff should get out more. I had hoped that would be in the 'Real World' and I am a bit dissapointed to find he has only got as far as the wigan board.

Still its a start isnt it jeff?

and i said he is never international or NRL class in a million years (~well, i didnt exactly say that but it was my point)

i could use Sam, Carmont and Locky as examples but they would be poor names to use as:

Sam: one of the best players in SL (and you'd have to be pretty blinkered yourself to disagree) and a contender for MOS

Carmont: has to be the best centre currently playing in SL

Locky: one of the best forwards in the league and also MOS contender

the reason i mentioned the leeds players i did is that we are forever having it rammed down our throats (by various Leeds speccies) how good those players are and they simply aren't

dont get me wrong, wigan have some players who will never be more than good squad players but we dont harp on about how they will be top of the game and NRL standard

We all said that about Luke Burgess, look at him now.

I think every club has a handful of players that look distinctly average to most fans, but if you watch them week in week out you appreciate what they do for your club and the talents they have. I am a Leeds fan and Ablett would be one of the first names on the sheet for me! He never shirks anything, has moved to Centre without a complaint and moved there for a Grand Final appearance and played well.

Also some fans forget that we watch a salary capped sport where you can't pay all your players a hefty wage so players like Carl who are committed to your club, give 110% and never hardly let you down are gold dust!!

havent followed the NRL for some time, is he doing good?

Not put a foot wrong so far.

Agreed, performing well above everyone's (mine included) expectations!

agreed, this thread, in my opinion was the result of being torched on the leeds board, and rightly so. It's like loosing an argument at school, then saying, right......i'm going getting my friends to back me up. Not very constructive posts on the leeds board, which, i feel, is leading to the contempt being felt on these forums at the moment. just my opinion

Correct. Ironically this thread has produced some worthwhile debate on the subject, rather than the one the OP hijacked on the Leeds board, which now consists mostly of centralparkforever (who may or may not be Keith Swiftcorn in other guise) writing "no, he's average and Leeds smells" repeatedly in response to whatever anyone else says.

I like him. Tackles all day, doesnt make too many mistakes and can be a house. That's what you want your second rowers to do, isn't it?

good strong back rower who goes under the radar more often than not, as most good second rowers do..

Works for me. He's a decent ball-carrier too, makes quite a lot of breaks.

His tackle stats have suffered a bit from being part of our raggedy-d defence this year (which results in everybody making tackles from slightly out of position) but generally is a very solid defender.

His biggest weakness is that he can, occasionally, be too much of a house, and give silly penalties away. Probably less so this year than previously though.

He's about 20 but looks 50 that guy did have an up hill paper round

He's a good British player, from what I've seen he's consistent and works hard. With the celery cap as it is Ablett is the type of player you wish you had 5 of imo.

I read in a program (I think) his nickname was 40-20. (Looks 40, aged 20)

Solid player, versatile - has played SR, centre, loose and stand off. Works hard, often does the full 80 mins. Defends well, can break a tackle. Has got a try or two in him, won't lose you a game and may well win one for you. Biggest problem for mine is lack of pace in attack (contrast that with J Tomkins at Wembley), and can get caught flat footed occasionally in defence.

Oh, and he doesn't poop himself when faced by Warrington props